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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2014, 8:07 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Reading it now; no problems with protections- thanks for posting.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2014, 8:49 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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My opinion of the staff is that they're continually leaving the city 1 step - or more - behind the major trends in complete street planning. Exacerbating this problem is the funnel vision they seem to have once an idea is set in motion; this carries throughout most of the city's decisions, but there have been some really spectacular failings of the streets department over the years.

I actually like what's become of 1st street, but let's not forget the original "improvements" which left the sidewalks baking and parked cars shaded. Surely, someone had to have noticed this and stepped in to halt construction and figure out a solution instead of carrying it to completion. I also think the original recommendation by the Urban Form stakeholders to design a linear park would've been a much nicer solution, and it's a shame the cheaper and simpler option was chosen unsurprisingly. All of our streets have fallen victim to back-of-house operations/poor planning, but 1st is one of the worst victims, and maybe a linear park could've shifted those trends toward more traditional building orientations with alleys serving back of house needs? Not to mention the impact such a linear park would have had on cooling, property values, and connectivity between Hance and the Sports Arenas.

The other massive fail is underway right now: the Roosevelt Streetscape. Thankfully, a passionate group fought hard enough to ensure parallel parking was installed on the south side of the street, but the fact that incorporating parallel parking into a complete streets program is infuriating! The city left the decision up to business owners, who wanted a more "pedestrian experience" to take over. Yet, these same business owners are forcing the city into developing parking solutions for the community, which will surely come by way of parking lot or garage, so they clearly understand there is a need for parking in close proximity to their business in order for it to thrive. The removal of parallel parking nearly destroyed the chance for the street to become a retail destination - what retail street in America doesn't offer streetside parking? The whole idea is to reduce speeds and increase the likelihood of a surprise shopping trip to increase revenues.

The result of the parking removal is 20' sidewalks and bike lanes that are even less protected, wedged between pedestrians and traffic. I can't think of 1 place on Roosevelt where 20' of sidewalk will ever be useful or trafficked. The 'retail' selection will always be quick-and-go kind of necessities due to the small footprints of the buildings (which is why parallel parking is needed), so window shopping will never come into play, even in fantasy land. Further, I can't think of any place that really offers outdoor dining at all to begin with, and dining establishments are far and few between on the road.

Bikers will be left unprotected - another huge area we are lacking in, and will continue to lack in, as our hired 'expert' doesn't feel protected bike lanes are a priority because of streetsweeping issues - and the project will hardly accomplish the most basic goals of these projects: reducing speeds, as they've provided nice, wide curves for speeding cars to turn around on.

Oh, and most of the trees on 1 side will be boxed due to the utility lines. 20' of sidewalk and no real trees... wtf.

Lastly, it just seems ironic for this city to ever talk about things like heat islands when they own and/or are responsible for the creation of how many surface lots in downtown?

Sorry for the lengthiest post ever; I just got done reading about the spread of protected bike lanes and I think every city in the U.S. was listed but Phoenix. That's okay, our only visited area is going to look great because it'll have 20' sidewalks and no parking cluttering up the roadway!
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2014, 9:05 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Perhaps the vast majority of their corporate employees live in North Phoenix and North Scottsdale? If they all live out there already, why locate 30+ min away? Not everybody is going to or even should work/live downtown.
In that case, almost all of the business sector should get out of downtown given the daytime population vs. residential numbers.

Choosing to live in an area that is outside the central city and outside the limits of our mass transit system was the personal decision of those employees and if that's the reason, flaunting sustainability is even more of a joke. Opening a HQ and store in a development that is a resource-sucker from the central city and those who choose to live centrally or along mass transit routes is the complete opposite of sustainable. As I said, this will only further drive future residential and commercial development in that area; their decision has an impact that stretches beyond just the location of the office and current employees. Yes, it would've been great to have that downtown. But, it would be even better to finally have a grocery store in the core so there would be some hope of attracting the retail and residential development most on this board here would want to see.

Why would you want that opportunity to not go to a central location, and instead go to a development who described itself as a "2nd downtown" and promote further sprawl?

I'll leave alone the fact that it would be nice if some company, leader, business, ANYONE had the civic pride of someone like Terry Goddard and would want to open their flagship/HQ downtown because it is the heart and core of the city and metro area, especially given that it is in the midst of a renaissance it can't seem to break through.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2014, 2:19 PM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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While this isn't really "development news" per say, it's been slow around here and I thought this article gives optimism that while the city still lacks in many aspects, they are slowly getting it.

http://www.downtownphoenix.com/blog/...ntown-phoenix/
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 8:31 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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Grocery store.

I have a little thought experiment that I'd like some input on.

If somebody were to open a grocery store of standard size in the downtown area, what are the logistical hurdles that must be overcome, things put in place, steps to take.

I'm not talking about the challenge of whether we should/could or if it would be sucessful. I want nothing in that vein. We've flogged that horse to death in this forum.

From start-to-finish, what comes to mind in the process of creating a (hopefully successful) downtown grocery store, whether it's built from scratch or uses existing space (which makes more sense at the moment, I think)

Throw any thoughts out. Thanks!
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 9:43 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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I really believe the moderator needs to move a majority of the previous posts over to the General Phoenix Discussion Thread. This thread is slowly reverting back to its previous state. The General Discussion Page was designed to reduce some of this excessive "commentary." Please keep this forum limited to development news/ updates. Thanks.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 9:48 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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ah, I suspect my post just above should be there, yes. Wish I could move it myself.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 9:57 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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I agree.....How many of us got excited reading Turpentyne's title of his post GROCERY STORE and thought news of one coming was finally here?!?!!!!!!
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:10 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azsunsurfer View Post
I really believe the moderator needs to move a majority of the previous posts over to the General Phoenix Discussion Thread. This thread is slowly reverting back to its previous state. The General Discussion Page was designed to reduce some of this excessive "commentary." Please keep this forum limited to development news/ updates. Thanks.
Is there really that much going on in the city that two forums are needed? It's unnecessary.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:14 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
Is there really that much going on in the city that two forums are needed? It's unnecessary.
hahaha!! Indeed! Sorry about that. I hadn't been in here in a while, and didn't notice there was a new, separated out section. I think it's a good idea.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 11:37 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
Is there really that much going on in the city that two forums are needed? It's unnecessary.
The conversation about the necessity of a second Phoenix thread really shouldn't be in Development News or the General Phoenix Discussion Thread. This should be in its own thread dedicated to discussing the necessity of the second thread.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 12:17 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azsunsurfer View Post
I really believe the moderator needs to move a majority of the previous posts over to the General Phoenix Discussion Thread. This thread is slowly reverting back to its previous state. The General Discussion Page was designed to reduce some of this excessive "commentary." Please keep this forum limited to development news/ updates. Thanks.
So, if a new HQ is announced, we aren't supposed to post our thoughts on that within this thread? I get that the multiple hypothetical discussions/thoughts for certain parcels/rants on design & architecture etc. were apparently cluttering the space between news of crappy constructed lowrises topping out at 5 stories.

But, every piece of 'news' posted here is taken from AZCentral and the like and posted days later. If this thread won't even accommodate debate or discussion on the little news we get, what's the point of it?
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 3:37 AM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Sorry guys, haven't had a chance to read as much or participate lately but I do agree that the discussion should take place here and not in the Phoenix Development News. That thread should be for news of developments, and I know sometimes it's hard to not segue into other topics since their spurred by development news but I think most people click on the Development News thread hoping to see something new announced and it should be kept that way.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 3:50 PM
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Arquitect Arquitect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
Sorry guys, haven't had a chance to read as much or participate lately but I do agree that the discussion should take place here and not in the Phoenix Development News. That thread should be for news of developments, and I know sometimes it's hard to not segue into other topics since their spurred by development news but I think most people click on the Development News thread hoping to see something new announced and it should be kept that way.
I completely agree, this used to be an awesome resource to find out what is going on in the city, but now in order to find news about new developments you have to go through pages and pages of rants and hypothetical utopian visions. It's part of the reason I haven't participated much lately, I don't have the time to go through all the extra to try and see what is actually going on.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 4:48 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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Originally Posted by Arquitect View Post
I completely agree, this used to be an awesome resource to find out what is going on in the city, but now in order to find news about new developments you have to go through pages and pages of rants and hypothetical utopian visions. It's part of the reason I haven't participated much lately, I don't have the time to go through all the extra to try and see what is actually going on.
Exactly. Please review the Houston/ SF/ or even DC city compilation threads. There you will find clean threads devoted to real estate/ construction/ economic development with a minimum of banter, commentary, or wasted space. Thank you for respecting our attempts at making the Phoenix Thread(s) reputable.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2014, 3:49 PM
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PHX31 PHX31 is offline
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Anyone else following the saga over the potential demolition of the 1938 WPA built administration building on the State Fair Grounds?

Apparently the fair people are ready to demolish it, but Mayor Stanton has called for an emergency HPT meeting today to hold off demolition. And police were protecting it from demolition last night. I'm happy such lengths have been taken to save it. Of course, I'm sad yet another historic cool building is slated for demolition in Phoenix (and has generally fallen into disrepair). It's so frustrating.



I've always admired the building for its presence on McDowell and its hidden in plain sight art deco gem aspect.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2014, 4:15 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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I did see that on AZCentral and thought it's a shame to demolish it. The article stated it would cost $1 Million to rehab it into usable space though.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2014, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
Anyone else following the saga over the potential demolition of the 1938 WPA built administration building on the State Fair Grounds?

Apparently the fair people are ready to demolish it, but Mayor Stanton has called for an emergency HPT meeting today to hold off demolition. And police were protecting it from demolition last night. I'm happy such lengths have been taken to save it. Of course, I'm sad yet another historic cool building is slated for demolition in Phoenix (and has generally fallen into disrepair). It's so frustrating.



I've always admired the building for its presence on McDowell and its hidden in plain sight art deco gem aspect.
The state fair grounds are such a treasure cove for old historic buildings. I love the coliseum. It's a shame that it is so disconnected from the city and everything around it. It would be awesome if it could be remodeled into a space that could be open year-round. More like a large park with sturdy paving options which can take the crazy foot-traffic of the large events that take place there. The fact that it is fenced off the majority of the time leads to it being forgotten and incidents like this occurring. The reason for which most of the city isn't more outspoken about historic preservation is that most people don't even know what is being lost.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2014, 6:18 PM
turpentyne turpentyne is offline
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Here's a little food for thought. I recently sent a request for information on getting a grocery store downtown. Eric Johnson, the Economic Development Program Manager for Phoenix, responded. Some of his points are things we've discussed here, before - such as the market demand issue:

Eric Johnson:
"... I can begin with letting you know that there are several companies in the private sector and staff in the city that are working on the challenge of bringing a grocery store to downtown Phoenix. We have been in discussions with both local and national grocery chains to find an ideal spot in downtown that works within the many requirements that are needed to bring a store to downtown and to make sure it is successful. The biggest obstacles that are faced include (1) a good location that has proper zoning, access to major roads, adequate utilities and is large enough to handle the size/space requirements of the store. A big challenge for grocers is thinking outside their usual suburban development model that requires a large amount of parking in front of the store, which then requires a lot of land to build that parking. (2) Adequately showing to the corporate entities that there is enough market demand to make their business numbers work. While we agree that there should be a store in downtown, the financing and other economic criteria such as traffic volume on certain streets, income level of those near by, number of households within a certain distance, are not yet to a level that clearly demonstrates that a store will be successful. ..."
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2014, 6:37 PM
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^ The downtown grocery store obsession is bizarre. No one is not moving to downtown because there's not a grocery store. Retail follows roof tops, when enough people live downtown, magically, a grocery store will appear. Lets focus our energy on dramatically increase downtown residential density, everything else will follow.

I worry this grocery store obsession could lead to a company speculatively putting a grocery downtown, it failing, and then it being even longer before we get a stable grocery store. A lot of community members are pushing Lennar homes to work with Sprouts (who wants a Central Phx location) to put in a grocery at Central/McDowell. That could really hurt the chances of an actual "downtown" grocery store, as no one is putting one south of the I-10 with the Sprouts and Safeway so nearby until residential density is way, way higher than it currently is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
I did see that on AZCentral and thought it's a shame to demolish it. The article stated it would cost $1 Million to rehab it into usable space though.
That number is bologna.

A. That $1M number is higher than what the contractor estimated, which was $800K. But it "could" cost up to $1M

B. That number is way too high because the contractor has ZERO Historic Preservation experience and it included things like putting in totally new windows (not only unnecessary but anti HP in every way), removing and re-stuccoing the outside instead of just fixing cracks.

C. The question that is never asked in this situations: Who's fault is it that the building is in poor shape to begin with!? The Fair! If you let your building fall apart you then can't cry "oh its in such bad shape there's nothing else we can do!" Its your freaking fault for letting it fall to bits.
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