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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:27 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by airomero83 View Post
holy shit...they just gave a big FU to all the neighborhood associations and historic preservationists. If I recall correctly after attending RAA meeting, there were still other dates and meetings w/ Developer on how to proceed and take in community feedback. Kinda shitty but oh well. Does this put in jeopardy the GPLET? I can't see the community supporting it after they pulled this stunt
Its probably a demonstration of cajones.

Give us the tax break and we will do our plan, save the important part of the structure. Don't and we will tear down the whole thing and sit on it until we sell it or develop later.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:28 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Its probably a demonstration of cajones.

Give us the tax break and we will do our plan, save the important part of the structure. Don't and we will tear down the whole thing and sit on it until we sell it or develop later.
Yeah I think so...which is complete BS. I guess we'll see...
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:30 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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That happened rather suddenly...
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:58 PM
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The developer promised the community no action was imminent. They promised they'd meet w/ the community to discuss potential compromises on Monday the 18th. They lied, they're shitheads, fuck them.

Its likely they won't get a GPLET now as people will be pissed, then they'll just flatten the rest of the block, sit on it, and try to flip it for a profit down the road. This developer has no track record of building things at the scale they're proposing. There's been fear all along that this was never a real proposal but rather just an attempt to clear the lot and re-sell it in a few years when value goes up. It seems that fear is coming true now.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Its probably a demonstration of cajones.

Give us the tax break and we will do our plan, save the important part of the structure. Don't and we will tear down the whole thing and sit on it until we sell it or develop later.
Smart by them. I'm sure they're tired of dealing with them. They compromised which is above and beyond what has typically happened in Phoenix.

Now the preservationists will probably be pissy, will fight the GPLET, and essentially be responsible for the entire destruction of the building they wanted to save.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:08 PM
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Smart by them. I'm sure they're tired of dealing with them. They compromised which is above and beyond what has typically happened in Phoenix.

Now the preservationists will probably be pissy, will fight the GPLET, and essentially be responsible for the entire destruction of the building they wanted to save.
W...T...F? They "compromised"? How? That is a beyond delusional interpretation of what happened.

Here's what actually happened:

They developers showed their renderings which only keeps a stub of the 1947 building remaining.

The community is concerned and reaches out.

The developers come to the RAA and DVC meetings to talk, and set up a tour of the building on April 11th. They tell the community even though they've pulled a demo permit, no action is imminent and they'll talk w/ the community again on April 18th about a plan going forward.

Today they begin to demolish the majority of the building, per their original plans.
-----------------------------------

Which part of that is a 'compromise'? They're just doing what they've planned to do from the start. They said they'd make a 'good faith effort' to work with the community. The community was open to an actual compromise that would let some of the building go and preserve some too, all while getting the developer their GPLET.

Now the developer has lied and is just demolishing it before the meeting that they fucking proposed with the community.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:11 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:20 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
W...T...F? They "compromised"? How? That is a beyond delusional interpretation of what happened.

Here's what actually happened:

They developers showed their renderings which only keeps a stub of the 1947 building remaining.

The community is concerned and reaches out.

The developers come to the RAA and DVC meetings to talk, and set up a tour of the building on April 11th. They tell the community even though they've pulled a demo permit, no action is imminent and they'll talk w/ the community again on April 18th about a plan going forward.

Today they begin to demolish the majority of the building, per their original plans.
-----------------------------------

Which part of that is a 'compromise'? They're just doing what they've planned to do from the start. They said they'd make a 'good faith effort' to work with the community. The community was open to an actual compromise that would let some of the building go and preserve some too, all while getting the developer their GPLET.

Now the developer has lied and is just demolishing it before the meeting that they fucking proposed with the community.
I have no love for circles, I get sick and tired of people thinking they "have a right" to interfere with everything companies want to do. Id rather have more population downtown, Bravo to them and plod on with building.

"leave the deserted building that I liked when I was a child"

Please, I wish they would tear it down and begin construction now. I know this isn't a popular opinion I just really don't get the obsession with an average building at best.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I have no love for circles, I get sick and tired of people thinking they "have a right" to interfere with everything companies want to do. Id rather have more population downtown, Bravo to them and plod on with building.

"leave the deserted building that I liked when I was a child"

Please, I wish they would tear it down and begin construction now. I know this isn't a popular opinion I just really don't get the obsession with an average building at best.
Would you say "Fountainhead" is your favorite book or "Atlas Shrugged," or is it just too hard to pick?
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
W...T...F? They "compromised"? How? That is a beyond delusional interpretation of what happened.

Here's what actually happened:

They developers showed their renderings which only keeps a stub of the 1947 building remaining.

The community is concerned and reaches out.

The developers come to the RAA and DVC meetings to talk, and set up a tour of the building on April 11th. They tell the community even though they've pulled a demo permit, no action is imminent and they'll talk w/ the community again on April 18th about a plan going forward.

Today they begin to demolish the majority of the building, per their original plans.
-----------------------------------

Which part of that is a 'compromise'? They're just doing what they've planned to do from the start. They said they'd make a 'good faith effort' to work with the community. The community was open to an actual compromise that would let some of the building go and preserve some too, all while getting the developer their GPLET.

Now the developer has lied and is just demolishing it before the meeting that they fucking proposed with the community.
No, there have already been at least one on site meeting and discussions with the community starting weeks ago. The developer then compromised and saved the "best/important" part of the building as seen in their released plans. The community got greedy started demanding more and now here we are. Hopefully the developer still follows through by preserving the whole south half. But with your and at least some of the preservationists attitude, and I'm sure GPLET fight, you'll probably cause the demo of the rest.
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
No, there have already been at least one on site meeting and discussions with the community starting weeks ago. The developer then compromised and saved the "best/important" part of the building as seen in their released plans. The community got greedy started demanding more and now here we are. Hopefully the developer still follows through by preserving the whole south half. But with your and at least some of the preservationists attitude, and I'm sure GPLET fight, you'll probably cause the demo of the rest.
How is them doing what they originally proposed to do a "compromise"? Do you know what that word even means?

Further, what about the fact that they promised no action on the building until after the 18th? Are you OK w/ people saying they'll do one thing and then they do the opposite?

The community didn't "get greedy" because the community didn't even ask for anything yet. That was what the Monday meeting was to be about, figuring out a compromise.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:11 PM
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From saving nothing to saving what they have shown now, that's the compromise they made after the first meeting with the community. Do YOU know what compromise means? Don't be a little bitch about it, geez. Be realistic instead of idealistic. I hope you don't cause the demo of the rest of the building.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:24 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Would you say "Fountainhead" is your favorite book or "Atlas Shrugged," or is it just too hard to pick?
People doing what they want with the land they own

The Horror!!! The Horror!!

you should be happy they even bother to get community input at all.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:25 PM
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HooverDam HooverDam is offline
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Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
From saving nothing to saving what they have shown now, that's the compromise they made after the first meeting with the community. Do YOU know what compromise means? Don't be a little bitch about it, geez. Be realistic instead of idealistic. I hope you don't cause the demo of the rest of the building.
Saving nothing was never an option though. Their renderings always showed the corner as part of the project. Their project is called "Circles on Central", you don't call it that if you have zero intention to incorporate any part of Circles into the building.

The developer doing what they originally proposed, after they said they'd wait, is not a compromise. I feel like you're trying to gaslight me b/c what you're saying makes zero sense.

At least the Mayor gets it:

My statement in response to developers starting demolition earlier today of the Stewart Motor Company (Circles) Building on Central Avenue and McKinley Street:
“I am angry that in the middle of negotiating a plan to save the iconic Stewart Motor Company building, the developer began demolition. After my office participated in discussions between the developer and neighborhood leaders, I was confident that a resolution would be found. However, sadly, it appears that the developer was acting in bad faith.”
BACKGROUND:
The City’s Community and Economic Development Department was in the middle of discussions with the developer, Empire Group. Some of the agreed terms of the discussion stated that the developer would not demolish or remove any portion of the existing building on the Site prior to submitting for construction permits. Empire has plans to build a 19-story apartment building on the 1.24-acre site.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:26 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
People doing what they want with the land they own

The Horror!!! The Horror!!

you should be happy they even bother to get community input at all.
Well wtf when they are asking for a damn handout, wtf do you expect? People are idiots sometimes
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
People doing what they want with the land they own

The Horror!!! The Horror!!

you should be happy they even bother to get community input at all.
You understand they're asking for a tax break, right? They are asking for something, so the people that have the power to grant that something were asking for something in return.

This is how the world works.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:48 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
You understand they're asking for a tax break, right? They are asking for something, so the people that have the power to grant that something were asking for something in return.

This is how the world works.
I suppose you could argue a Tax break is "giving" them something...more like "taking less" from them

but besides, as I have made no bones about, I think the circles building and the hysteria around it is completely stupid. To bad it wasn't demolished YEARS AGO
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:50 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
You understand they're asking for a tax break, right? They are asking for something, so the people that have the power to grant that something were asking for something in return.

This is how the world works.
I'm so upset about this. What the Fuck? Those developers suck, they had contempt for the neighborhood. Then Obadno and Phx31 start their typical old is bad, corporations are people bullshit in defense of this fucked up maneuver. Why be part of a city forum if you don't give a fuck about the past?
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2016, 12:31 AM
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I'm so upset about this. What the Fuck? Those developers suck, they had contempt for the neighborhood. Then Obadno and Phx31 start their typical old is bad, corporations are people bullshit in defense of this fucked up maneuver. Why be part of a city forum if you don't give a fuck about the past?
Read any of the rest of my posts about this subject in this thread.

No, I'm serious Hoover. Their plans came out after their first meeting. This building and project is likely a goner now and I'm putting very little on the developer. To me it sounds like bending over backward for the developer is more painful to you than losing the building. Perhaps the GPLET should have been given to save even the small corner of the building like they were proposing if it's so important. That's what we could get, that's all.

They started doing the demo not in good faith, but that's their prerogative. The "community" (quotes because I'm sure not everyone was taking such a hard line) seems to have had much less leverage than they thought with the GPLET. Don't want to give them one? Fine, They probably have a backup plan. But your hard line will probably cause the loss of the building.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2016, 1:12 AM
RonnieFoos RonnieFoos is offline
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