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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 3:38 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
refused for the past year to discuss their concerns or behave like a neighbor who is interested in the well-being of those surrounding them. They feel as though
That's a pretty good summary of Roosevelt Row, folks. Let's all sit in a circle and discuss our feelings. Different breed of owner over there. I'm all for helping out your local business community... but wow.



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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
They feel as though the developer is being given the power to ram something down their throats
You're 100% correct. Derby HAS been given the power to ram this project (that has been approved by the city) down their throats. They have the land, they have the capital, they have city permits. That's how the system works.

Now in Matt's defense, he has every right to file any sort of injunction that he pleases..... unfortunately.



Fingers crossed this gets put behind us quickly. DT is teetering on the verge of an actual boom here.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 4:28 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
He's not the only one in the neighborhood fighting this building, actually most of the business owners are.
If they're fighting it anonymously, they might as well not be fighting it at all. As much as I disagree with Mat Englehorn on the Derby, the Roosevelt BID, and parking meters, I respect him for at least being open about his positions.
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 4:41 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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It wouldn't make sense for the whole neighborhood to separately voice their concerns, it's always more sensible to choose one person to handle these things which is how every neighborhood association that has successfully fought a development does it.

I am neither for or against the building, frankly I could give a shit whether it's built but I do think they are entitled to their concerns and from the sound of it if the developer had at least taken the time to schedule a sit down meeting with them (or even a conference call) this wouldn't have escalated this far.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 5:46 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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A private developer plans to build a 20 story apartment building on an empty lot.

How is the community confused on their intentions?
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:07 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I don't want to dive too far into this but the source of the confusion is based on these items:

1. Closure of the alley that at least two neighboring businesses use.

2. erection of scaffolding above one neighboring business which would result in closure of the patio for likely 18 months or more.

3. Parking concerns: developer was given approval to provide enough spaces for about 60% of the units to have parking. This would put a strain on parking in the area which, in all honesty, has the highest concentration of retail and restaurant businesses downtown.

The story goes as such, local business owners wanted to talk to the developer to see if they could get an explanation of how construction would affect the neighbors businesses, how the developer might help the neighborhood cope with the project, and discuss some other concerns. My understanding is the neighbors were not opposed to the building until their repeated requests (both via telephone and in writing) for a contact with the developer were ignored. After ignoring the neighbor's requests, and subsequently the neighbor's attorney's requests for contact, the neighborhood decided to play hard-ball with simply Matt being the vocal leader which is natural since he's the immediate neighbor who will be most affected.

Again, I take no sides here but I need two hands to count the number of business owners in the immediate vicinity who are angry and want to stop the development. There are only four options at this point.

1. The developer says "this is too ******* hard" and throws in the towel.
2. Goldwater wins their case, the developer does not get the GPLET, but the developer presses forward without it.
3. Goldwater loses the case, the developer gets the GPLET, and presses forward despite opposition.
4. Goldwater wins the case, the GPLET becomes unavailable, and the developer goes away.

The emergency injunction will only delay things until a court case is decided by a judge.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:15 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
3. Parking concerns: developer was got approval to provide enough spaces for about 60% of the units to have parking. This would put a strain on the area which, in all honesty, has the highest concentration of retail and restaurant businesses downtown.
The Derby's micro-apartments are designed specifically to appeal to people seeking an urban lifestyle and less reliance on automotive transport. Relaxing 1:1 parking ratios that were designed for suburban environments is one of the best aspects of the Derby. The first two concerns sounds potentially legitimate, but this should be a non-issue.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:37 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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This may not be the case in 10 years but how many people right now do you think can afford $1,300 for rent in a studio apartment and don't have a car? I bet there are a few, but in Phoenix, AZ, it's nowhere near 40% of residents. No chance.

Don't drink the marketing Kool-Aid, think realistically.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:46 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
This may not be the case in 10 years but how many people right now do you think can afford $1,300 for rent in a studio apartment and don't have a car? I bet there are a few, but in Phoenix, AZ, it's nowhere near 40% of residents. No chance.

Don't drink the marketing Kool-Aid, think realistically.
Availability of free or cheap parking is a big factor in decision making about car ownership. Continuing to impose outmoded, one-size-fits-all parking requirements is the surest way to keep car ownership rates high among residents who might otherwise forego one. Unbundling parking from apartment rent forces intelligent decision making about vehicle ownership. Given your previous comments about parking and driving everywhere, I realize nothing I say is likely to convince you. This will remain an issue on which we'll have to agree to disagree. Nevertheless, I hope others will realize that the diminished parking supply at the Derby is a feature, not a bug.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:48 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Availability of free or cheap parking is a big factor in decision making about car ownership. Continuing to impose outmoded, one-size-fits-all parking requirements is the surest way to keep car ownership rates high among residents who might otherwise forego one. Unbundling parking from apartment rent forces intelligent decision making about vehicle ownership. Given your previous comments about parking and driving everywhere, I realize nothing I say is likely to convince you. This will remain an issue on which we'll have to agree to disagree. Nevertheless, I hope others will realize that the diminished parking supply at the Derby is a feature, not a bug.
well said. I don't think it's the notion of being able to afford $1,300 rent but not a car...but rather choosing not to have a car. I understand it's a concept unfamiliar to most especially here in the greater Phoenix area.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 6:57 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Availability of free or cheap parking is a big factor in decision making about car ownership. Continuing to impose outmoded, one-size-fits-all parking requirements is the surest way to keep car ownership rates high among residents who might otherwise forego one. Unbundling parking from apartment rent forces intelligent decision making about vehicle ownership. Given your previous comments about parking and driving everywhere, I realize nothing I say is likely to convince you. This will remain an issue on which we'll have to agree to disagree. Nevertheless, I hope others will realize that the diminished parking supply at the Derby is a feature, not a bug.
I wish exit2lef held a high position at the Phoenix Planning and Development Department. Need more brains thinking his way.
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 7:23 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by airomero83 View Post
well said. I don't think it's the notion of being able to afford $1,300 rent but not a car...but rather choosing not to have a car. I understand it's a concept unfamiliar to most especially here in the greater Phoenix area.
If I worked downtown I would try a no car go for a bit, especially if that made the difference in being able to afford an apartment of the quality I am looking for.
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 8:43 PM
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KEVINphx KEVINphx is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
A private developer plans to build a 20 story apartment building on an empty lot.

How is the community confused on their intentions?
OR how it's any of their damn business - they don't own the fuckin' land!

I'd be pissed if this was my property - and yet there are no arms raised over the countless, actually-poorly-designed shit across the central city. These people are morons they should run their little businesses in suburban strip malls if they don't get the concept of urbanity.

It's not as if this is a sewage treatment facility or something being done under the radar or that doesn't comply with zoning. . . . I agree with the conservative concept of allowing property owners to do more-or-less as they and the market dictate with property they own especially if an historic or landmark structure or something of that sort are not in question
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 9:15 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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You might feel differently if your business were compromised for two years. These guys aren't wealthy chain business owners, they're small businesses that can't necessarily sustain even a modest loss in revenue for 18-24 months.

Just saying.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 12:42 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Matt Poole has installed a chain fence to keep the construction guys from going in his lot lol

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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 2:11 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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If I worked downtown I would try a no car go for a bit, especially if that made the difference in being able to afford an apartment of the quality I am looking for.
I'm posting too much, probably annoyingly, but I have a response to this.

I live downtown and my office is downtown, I still own multiple cars and drive almost daily. I cannot imagine trying to get by without one. I'm not going to struggle with groceries, ride in Ubers, or whatever else I'd have to complicate my life with to be without car.
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 3:27 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
I'm posting too much, probably annoyingly, but I have a response to this.

I live downtown and my office is downtown, I still own multiple cars and drive almost daily. I cannot imagine trying to get by without one. I'm not going to struggle with groceries, ride in Ubers, or whatever else I'd have to complicate my life with to be without car.
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
This may not be the case in 10 years but how many people right now do you think can afford $1,300 for rent in a studio apartment and don't have a car? I bet there are a few, but in Phoenix, AZ, it's nowhere near 40% of residents. No chance.

Don't drink the marketing Kool-Aid, think realistically.
It doesn't need to be 40% of the residents of Phoenix who think this way, just 84 (40% of 211 units). I'm sure that there are at least 84 people in the metro area who disagree with you, who don't own or want a car and would be willing and able to pay to live in a place like Derby.

This building is not marketed to people like you, or me for that matter, who rely on their cars so much.

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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
You might feel differently if your business were compromised for two years. These guys aren't wealthy chain business owners, they're small businesses that can't necessarily sustain even a modest loss in revenue for 18-24 months.

Just saying.
I might, or I might also try thinking longer term about how many more customers this will bring to me. I understand that some businesses might not make it long enough to see the benefits, but whether they like it or not SOMETHING is going to get built on that lot at some point. It might not be Derby and it might not happen right now if the developer walks away, but it will happen eventually. And it won't matter how many meetings or discussions they hold to address concerns and disruptions and feelings; somebody won't like it and some lives and businesses will be affected, so they'll either adapt or relocate or close. I'm not trying to be callous, just realistic. I hate to burst anyone in Roosevelt Row's bubble, but this is what happens when a city grows and right now downtown is definitely having a growth spurt.


.

Last edited by RichTempe; Mar 16, 2017 at 3:50 AM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 4:43 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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I've lived downtown for 4 years now..... Went all of 2016 without a car perfectly fine. Amazon Prime 2-day Delivery. Safeway delivers groceries. Uber. Light Rail.

Couple of the apartments downtown even offer maid service, room service, laundry service, dry cleaning, and more.

Let's be perfectly clear: if you have the capital and want to live without a car - downtown makes it easy already.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 5:17 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Let's be perfectly clear: some people can live without a car.

My last intention is to start an argument about car vs. no car using personal anecdotes as a basis for discussion. The fact that cannot be ignored is we live in a automotive centric society and the number of people who live car free and are decent earners, is very low. Am I saying they can't fill the apartments? no. I make no such claim.

My point is this:

There will be more residents with cars than they will have spaces for, there will be visitors with cars, and there will be service people with cars. There will be more cars than spaces, that cannot be argued as it is not my opinion or speculation, it's an absolute inevitability. Between ASU and local businesses along with all of the new apartments in the area, parking is already at a premium. Matt's Big Breakfast, The Velo, and Cobra all struggle daily with people parking in their lots and disappearing, do you think building an apartment structure with too few spaces will help that matter or make it worse?
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 9:11 PM
downtownphxguy12 downtownphxguy12 is offline
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[QUOTE=

My point is this:

There will be more residents with cars than they will have spaces for, there will be visitors with cars, and there will be service people with cars. There will be more cars than spaces, that cannot be argued as it is not my opinion or speculation, it's an absolute inevitability. Between ASU and local businesses along with all of the new apartments in the area, parking is already at a premium. Matt's Big Breakfast, The Velo, and Cobra all struggle daily with people parking in their lots and disappearing, do you think building an apartment structure with too few spaces will help that matter or make it worse?[/QUOTE]

I recommend more surface parking lots!! I was going to say parking garages, but people complain about the difficulty of parking in the arizona center garage. Lets keep it suburban.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 9:20 PM
fawd fawd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
Matt's Big Breakfast, The Velo, and Cobra all struggle daily with people parking in their lots and disappearing, do you think building an apartment structure with too few spaces will help that matter or make it worse?


Wait, what?! Angels Trumpet (and others nearby) is concerned that the increase of residents in the area will have a negative effect on customer parking, and therefore hurt their business?




Let's be clear: Angels Trumpet has 12 parking spaces on their lot. Twelve. Assuming all 12 spots are used exclusively by customers - that's not enough to keep the doors open.

There isn't a group of businesses more dependent on the addition of thousands of nearby residential units for future growth. And let's not forget the 222+ customers that will (literally) be upstairs.
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