Austin: Childrens' Museum leaving downtown

[M1EK]

Obviously I think this is a horrible move - click the link for my reaction.

From the Statesman:

The Austin Children’s Museum, which has been seeking a new home, plans to move to Mueller, the former city airport that is being turned into a new community of businesses, stores and homes.

The museum’s board of directors has voted to begin negotiations with Catellus Development Corp., the master developer for Mueller.

The museum would be in Mueller’s town center, at the heart of the 711-acre development.

“We’re excited about the possibility of building a new facility at Mueller,” said Mike Nellis, the museum’s executive director. “As a family-oriented community with a commitment to diversity, Mueller shares our values and we feel it’s an ideal location for the new museum.”

The museum is now at the corner of Second Street and Colorado, but has been planning for several years to move to bigger quarters.

[alexjon]

Ouch!

Children's Museums are often combined are closely associated with other attractions (Portland: The zoo, a massive park; San Antonio: Riverwalk and its "mint in box, don't touch, do nothing to this" downtown; Seattle: Seattle Center) and are often linked by transit (Portland: Washington Park MAX; San Antonio: "Trolleys", future Streetcar; Seattle: Monorail, Monorail, MONORAIIIIIL!!, future Streetcar)... not something I'd consider a suburban attraction.

Disastrous move for them.

[OfCourse]

Suckage.

[Saddle Man]

This is no bueno.

[KevinFromTexas]

I thought it's a strange move too. It doesn't much help downtown's image as a family friendly place either.

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by M1EK

Obviously I think this is a horrible move - click the link for my reaction.

Just out of curiosity do things ever work out the way you want them do when it comes to the city? hm.

I do believe I remember reading in the statesman that they ACM moved out of downtown because it was too expensive for them to move to the location that was they chose (21c I believe). They weren't expecting it to cost so much so they couldn't make the move. I don't know what went on inside the ACM's decision makers but Mueller seems to me the next best bet for them. It already has a lot of families there, if the light rail gets approved it will have transit to the community from downtwon etc, rapid bus is supposed to be there eventually, and it's really not that far from downtown (3 miles). So I don't see it being a terrible move just not exactly what they wanted to do.

[PartyLine]

What Austin needs is a Museum district like in Houston

[M1EK]

The 21C development and the city were going to heavily subsidize their move. If you were to ask me to guess, I'd say it had more to do with the folks running the museum wanting to be closer to Dell folks up in Round Rock.

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by M1EK

The 21C development and the city were going to heavily subsidize their move. If you were to ask me to guess, I'd say it had more to do with the folks running the museum wanting to be closer to Dell folks up in Round Rock.

I don't know what they were thinking as I wasn't there. But.... I would disagree with you on this assessment. I know it was a money thing according to the Statesman article I read awhile back. It was going to cost them a ton of money they weren't expecting even with the subsidizes from the city.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by paulsjv

I don't know what they were thinking as I wasn't there. But.... I would disagree with you on this assessment. I know it was a money thing according to the Statesman article I read awhile back. It was going to cost them a ton of money they weren't expecting even with the subsidizes from the city.

I'm not seeing that at all. I remember the same Statesman article, and everybody was saying that money wasn't going to be an issue - the city was kicking in a ton of money and the landlord was giving them a sweetheart deal, so everybody was wondering what, exactly, the ACM had in mind. Now we know - they wanted to move somewhere more convenient for the folks in Round Rock (after whom the place is named, after all).

Moving to Mueller won't be free either, and I would think (I would hope) not subsidized by the city.

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by M1EK

I'm not seeing that at all. I remember the same Statesman article, and everybody was saying that money wasn't going to be an issue - the city was kicking in a ton of money and the landlord was giving them a sweetheart deal, so everybody was wondering what, exactly, the ACM had in mind. Now we know - they wanted to move somewhere more convenient for the folks in Round Rock (after whom the place is named, after all).

Well I wouldn't speculate like that. You'll only get yourself in trouble. The fact is you don't know (nor do I) what their reasonings were behind them moving to Mueller. We weren't there when they made the decision.

Moving to Mueller won't be free either, and I would think (I would hope) not subsidized by the city.

Well I'm going to go out on a limb and say it must be cheaper than 21C. Guess we'll see when/if they report how much it is going to cost them.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by paulsjv

Well I wouldn't speculate like that. You'll only get yourself in trouble. The fact is you don't know (nor do I) what their reasonings were behind them moving to Mueller. We weren't there when they made the decision.

We do know that the city and 21C said their costs would basically be covered. We also know that no such promise has been made with Mueller.

Dude, I'd benefit personally if Mueller moved to my neighborhood, too, but that doesn't make me somehow not able to be objective about it if they did it, nor should you somehow lose your objectivity here because you're moving to Mueller. The new location will actually be easier for our family to drive to, and like I said in the post, we drive there most of the time (at least for now). But it doesn't make it any better for the city.

[arbeiter]

I remember the Austin Children's Museum before this one, on West 5th near where Tapelenders is.

[alexjon]

Mueller makes the baby Jane Jacobs cry

[nixcity]

I wonder how viable it would be to have 2, one downtown and then another one at Mueller. I guess it would have to find a way to generate a lot more money.

[MichaelB]

Minor point of clarification folks. 21C is getting confused with Block 21. Easy to confuse. Very different projects. Block 21 is the "W" project where the ACM was to go. (2nd street bet Lavaca and Guadalupe) It already has cranes in place. 21C is the yet to be built project now to be located at Red River and Caesar Chavez. (much speculated to be in demise... thought that is shear speculation)

I must say the ACM has made a very conservative choice. However, I am not surprised by it. While I am NO MEANS advocating it, as I have thought about it, I can see why they made the choice. I also would bet the Mueller folks are eager to have another amenity added to its list. Cost of space and parking have to be of great appeal. I would assume it is a better balance of coming "into town" for most suburbanites than the actual CBD.... cause folks....it really is close in.

It also makes sense to have it in an area that has a very intensive focus on children already. Mueller not only will have Tons of families with children, but is aldo has an intensive focus on Children's medicine, and it would be great to have a destination for kids that area who have to visit the hospital. I think that is a great mix with lots of potential.

As far as it being part of a cultural center..... or Museum District in the CDB. Um, my experience with taking children there has never lead to another downtown activity. Ain't no way I was gettin' a 5 year old to go hang out at AMOA for the rest of the afternoon after we had just been thru what is essentially a big activities center! Food, soda, park......yep.... quietly observing objects in a Museum with your inside voice on....not happening. (and believe me, I tried) Point being, I think it has a different market and is a different destination than folks who are looking for an afternoon of Museum's. (Side note: really like AMOA's children's area, hope it will be expanded in the new digs... but, again, one "museum is usually enough a day!)

So I get it. Wish there was an angel who could make it happen in the CBD.... but, I didn't win the lottery this week.... anybody else?

Maybe someday there will indeed be two campuses. In the meantime I do not see it as a blow to downtown.... really, they were only there because Wooly (sp?) and Dell made it happen. If they are going to have a long life and stand more on their own, perhaps they need to make some wise choices. Hope this is one.

[M1EK]

There's two separate issues here:

1. Other attractions - no, the childrens' hospital is not a bonus for the ACM. Really - kids sick enough to be in the hospital shouldn't and won't be going to the museum. Even kids going to doctors' appointments don't belong there. And remember - the footprint of Mueller is much bigger than the CBD; some of the stuff people think they'll be walking to is actually going to be very far away.

2. Transportation - yes, Mueller is easier to drive to, today. It's a lot harder to take the bus to, and streetcar won't help (most of Austin would have to take two buses today, or one bus + streetcar, best-case scenario, to get there; while downtown is one bus for essentially everybody). The downtown service is also a heck of a lot more frequent. You're talking about 30 minutes or so to ride the bus to the ACM for most of the city - compared to maybe 90-120 minutes on 2 different buses to get to Mueller.

[PartyLine]

Originally Posted by M1EK

There's two separate issues here:

1. Other attractions - no, the childrens' hospital is not a bonus for the ACM. Really - kids sick enough to be in the hospital shouldn't and won't be going to the museum. Even kids going to doctors' appointments don't belong there. And remember - the footprint of Mueller is much bigger than the CBD; some of the stuff people think they'll be walking to is actually going to be very far away.

2. Transportation - yes, Mueller is easier to drive to, today. It's a lot harder to take the bus to, and streetcar won't help (most of Austin would have to take two buses today, or one bus + streetcar, best-case scenario, to get there; while downtown is one bus for essentially everybody). The downtown service is also a heck of a lot more frequent. You're talking about 30 minutes or so to ride the bus to the ACM for most of the city - compared to maybe 90-120 minutes on 2 different buses to get to Mueller.

To me Mueller would be better as a medical center area like the South Texas medical center in San Antonio or medical center in Houston since the childrens hospital is already in there.

[PartyLine]

Here's an article from 2006 I found http://www.austin360.com/arts/conten...4/1austin.html

[alexjon]

I'm telling you guys, it won't work...

Like most "destinations", if it's not grouped with other attractions and well-served by transit, it's destined to fail. Compare the Seattle Art Museum and Bellevue Arts Museum. SAM is located near other attractions and is on a transit hub. BAM is several blocks from the transit center and is next to a mall. Guess which one is struggling to stay afloat?

Actually, someone from Bellevue may be able to tell me if I'm right, but I'm pretty sure they shut down BAM for a while.

As far as transit goes, transfers can be included given a certain measure of incentive (multiple destinations, for example), like in Portland. The parking lot gets full but there isn't too much parking. Parking is also connected to the zoo. The Children's Museum there gets tons of folks who bus-MAX it up to the museum.