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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 8:39 PM
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How do we fix Canada's "population void"?

So I was dicking around on Photoshop and came up with this



to show how the middle of our country is essentially empty. Between Winnipeg and the Golden Horseshoe there are only 250,000 people with more than half being in Thunder Bay.

To ensure the health of our country we need to ensure the health of all our regions. Every region in our country has significant population except for the territories and north-west Ontario. Obviously the territories will be far harder to populate, but north-west Ontario doesn't have the same environmental factors holding back its growth.

I know there are a few users from Thunder Bay here and I'd be interested on what their opinion is.

Promoting growth here would act as a "bridge" of the east and west much like Ottawa acts as a "bridge" between Ontario and Quebec.

Will we ever see a day when northwestern Ontario boasts a large population? How about other seemingly "empty" areas like northeastern Ontario and northern Quebec?

We have all this land prime for settlement and its sitting unused.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 8:41 PM
Gerrard Gerrard is offline
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Global warming.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 8:44 PM
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I would extend this topic to how do we address severe upcoming labour shortages (Especially in Alberta) and deal with too low of a birth rate.

Give me an

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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
I would extend this topic to how do we address severe upcoming labour shortages (Especially in Alberta) and deal with too low of a birth rate.

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Sorry, but this doesn't sound like the solution unless the Canadian Government starts mandating where immigrants settle once they're in Canada. Maybe it could be like a probationary period...

"Sure you can come to Canada, but you have to live in the exciting metropolis of Kenora for 4 years once you arrive... Wait, come back!"...
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:04 PM
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^hahaha... other areas simply need to promote themselves more. I have no problem with certain centres getting the bulk given their established support/communities.

Rural and 'secondary' cities are always going to play catchup unfortunately, but we can incentive-ise relocating there as we do now here for rural Doctors.

Alberta is going to be in for quite the labour crunch again soon and it is NOT good for anyone.

Temporary foreign workers ARE NOT the answer and often become more of an issue than they solve unfortunately.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:24 PM
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I'm not sure I really see the problem here. It's easy to look at a map like that and be mystified about why there's a big hole there where people could be living and building cities etc. and imagine that this requires some sort of solution. That giant hole is called the Canadian Shield and people don't live there because there really isn't a whole lot to draw them there. Except in a few pockets that already support a rural population (Kapuskasing, Thunder Bay, Dryden, Fort Frances), most of the shield does not support agriculture. The economic value of the land is principally through mining and forestry, but neither of those requires proximity to settlements in order to be successful. So why go solve a problem which doesn't exist and go put people somewhere where they aren't needed and somewhere they don't want to go?
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
We have all this land prime for settlement and its sitting unused.
What makes you say it is prime land?
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:30 PM
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Nothing wrong with keeping parts of Canada wilderness. The charm of northern Ontario is that it is not built up.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:36 PM
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I don't see the need to increase populations in rural areas and smaller towns. In fact I'd argue that artificially increasing those populations would be a bad thing.

In cases where dramatic labor shortages are looming like Edmonton and Northern Alberta, incentives may be worthwhile to get people to relocate (although the paycheque seems like incentive enough for most transplants) Figuring out a way for people who migrate to become more grounded in their new communities would be a good thing.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 9:44 PM
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It's an incredible waste of time and resources to try and force people to take up space just because it will look better on a map.

People choose to settle in areas of :
- High human activity
- Favorable geography
- Favorable economic prospects
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 10:03 PM
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If it actually warranted fixing, I would say the solution is what the government has done in the past to fix such things -> free land.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2011, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Nothing wrong with keeping parts of Canada wilderness. The charm of northern Ontario is that it is not built up.
It's covered in mines and clear cuts. Not very "charming".

The land isn't prime land either. It's either solid rock, swamp, or water. You can't farm much. The soil isn't very good and the growing season is short. Most of our food has to be imported, so it's more expensive to eat here, and that is one of the more important aspects of living.


Between the Golden Horseshoe and Winnipeg, there is about 750,000 in Northern Ontario, plus an additional 100,000 in Parry Sound and Muskoka, and then another 500,000 in the area between York Region and the Muskokas. About 1.35 million people. I consider Northern Ontario proper to be north of the French and Mattawa Rivers and Lake Nipissing. North Bay would be a border town.



What Northern Ontario needs to prosper is the ability to create economic and land use policies that support the region. The Ontario Government often creates policies designed with the south in mind since most people live there, but those policies don't fit into the reality of the north. Things like:

-The Far North Act — turning half the north into a protected area but not saying which parts, making investors reluctant to invest here because their investment might be cancelled due to the law. The Mining Act reform and forestry tenure changes — not entirely bad, but not as beneficial as they might have been if Northerners had more control over their creation. Some have accused these laws of being tools of the government to please environmentalists, without having to deal with political ramifications for their actions as the north has only 10 of 107 seats in the legislature.

-Uniform minimum wage at $10.25 — impossible to live on in Toronto but doable here; we used to have a lower minimum wage than the rest of the province which was reasonable and easier on businesses, though that is debatable, and in the far north, the cost of living is far too high for even a minimum wage of 15 dollars to be sufficient.

-Requirements for highway upgrades based on Southern Ontario realities which are nearly unattainable here, which is part of why our highways rarely get upgraded. Outside of the Sudbury to Barrie corridor, they only seem to get upgraded when an MPP is at risk of losing his seat.

-An apparent lack of understanding by southern politicians of the issues faced by the aboriginal population in this region. If Northern Ontario was a province, we would have the highest proportion of aboriginal people of any province in Canada. Thunder Bay's aboriginal population is growing over 8% a year. Growth in the aboriginal population is the primary reason Northwestern Ontario's population grew between 2001 and 2006; immigration played a very small role.

-The province considers aboriginals to be a federal issue and doesn't do much to alleviate their problems, and is very slow to act on aboriginal issues the province should act on. Regional governance for the north would include aboriginals and that should help them become more prosperous. Some of the worst living conditions in first world countries are found in Ontario. Pikangkum, north of Kenora, has 75% unemployment and the highest suicide rate in the world. Reserves in Quebec and Manitoba are doing far better by comparison, but still aren't doing great.

As for immigration, the region is working hard to attract immigrants (we've released a web portal for it), but one of the issues we have is racism against non-whites causing immigrants who aren't white to feel unwelcome here, and so they leave. It isn't discussed openly but several well known figures who immigrated to this city with great fanfare have recently left because of it. The population isn't mostly racist, but the few bad apples we have are very vocal with their hate. The increasing aboriginal population has created some very offensive statements from a few members of the public recently. Most people aren't like that but a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

Our local governments are mostly very progressive, but they have limited tools at their disposal to achieve the things they want to achieve. A government based in a city of 6 million people a thousand miles away has difficulty understanding our issues, but I do know that many of them try.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 1:00 AM
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People don't move somewhere cold unless they can get a good, so if someone can figure out how to bring well paying jobs into those areas then the people will follow.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 1:06 AM
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I wonder if the OP has ever actually been to Northern Ontario...

Needless to say there isn't much land suitable for creating large settlements.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 1:06 AM
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Mining is trying to boom, but it will probably only bring a few people since most people working in the field will be locals.

The research sector is doing well but it doesn't employ many people.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 4:24 AM
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I think Canada needs to look at the US, which ditched the monarchy 300 years ago, and now they are 10 times more populous and powerful than us. So obviously ditching the monarchy is the solution to Canada's "population void."
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  #17  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 4:35 AM
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I think a solid incentive would be to lower taxes for families albeit aim to achieve a flat tax. 120k may sound like a lot but not when one person's income has to support a family of 5.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 5:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
So I was dicking around on Photoshop and came up with this



to show how the middle of our country is essentially empty. Between Winnipeg and the Golden Horseshoe there are only 250,000 people with more than half being in Thunder Bay.

To ensure the health of our country we need to ensure the health of all our regions. Every region in our country has significant population except for the territories and north-west Ontario. Obviously the territories will be far harder to populate, but north-west Ontario doesn't have the same environmental factors holding back its growth.

I know there are a few users from Thunder Bay here and I'd be interested on what their opinion is.

Promoting growth here would act as a "bridge" of the east and west much like Ottawa acts as a "bridge" between Ontario and Quebec.

Will we ever see a day when northwestern Ontario boasts a large population? How about other seemingly "empty" areas like northeastern Ontario and northern Quebec?

We have all this land prime for settlement and its sitting unused.
Give the extra land to China... Or wait until they decide to take it...
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 5:55 AM
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Develop the land with better infrastructure. We can also create special economic zones similar to what China does.
Alberta already does special economic zones, just look at how successful Calgary is given the land it sits on is only suitable for raising cattle.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2011, 6:22 AM
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The gap will only increase because despite what all the people from rural Canada say about how wonderful it is the reality is that most prefer living in large cities.
While I can see how rural Canada has a definete draw for those seeking a more relaxed and affordable life style most would never even consider moving there.
Also, why would anyone moved to northern Ontario or Quebec when they can live nearly as cheaply in much of the southern areas that are closer to big cities and have much warmer climates?
Just look at Wind/Chat/Sarn ...........outside of BC it has Canada's mildest climate, surrounded by lakes, lovely countryside, many pretty small towns, and is still driving distance to Toronto but all three of those cities.regions have declining population.
They all have incredibly cheap housing and yet they can't get professionals to move there. Many of these areas are in dire need of nurses and doctors and the wage level is the same across the province but their dollar will go much further but it matters not.
People like the entertainment, action, educational opportunities, diversity, liberal attitudes that big cities offer and they are willing to pay to get it.
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