Canadian City/Regional Personalities and Attitudes

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Boy do we live on different planets. I find Franco-Canadians to be some of the most easy going and warmly communicating Canadians...WASPs tend to be polite/friendly but more uptight. Spanish/Portuguese/Mexicans, Latins, etc. are some of the most polite/agreeable people I've met, though like most Latins and emotional people they have a fiery temper when upset. Perhaps it's that Canadian WASPs (I don't consider all Anglo-Canadians uniform culturally, neither do I consider urban WASPs and rural WASPs to be the same in temperament, not by a long shot) tend to be more reserved and polite when frustrated/slighted. My experience with Franco-Canadians is that they are friendly and more agreeable/pleasant (compared to WASP-Canadians) under normal circumstances but more apt to engage in impolite behaviour, demonstrate anger, etc. only when their interests are misaligned with yours. A pattern among more emotional cultures.

I think we are saying pretty much the same thing. Aren't we?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think we are saying pretty much the same thing. Aren't we?

The way you worded it, it sounded like you were saying Franco-Canadians are in general ruder and more abrasive than Anglo-Canadians (or rather the WASP subset you use to categorize the whole group) by default and in general. My experience is that they are generally more polite and friendly under normal circumstances but under hostile/non-aligned circumstances become more disagreeable. If that's not what you mean then I'll notch it up to our usual communication differences lol...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The way you worded it, it sounded like you were saying Franco-Canadians are in general ruder and more abrasive than Anglo-Canadians (or rather the WASP subset you use to categorize the whole group) by default and in general. My experience is that they are generally more polite and friendly under normal circumstances but under hostile/non-aligned circumstances become more disagreeable. If that's not what you mean then I'll notch it up to our usual communication differences lol...

"Polite" and "friendly" are not the same thing to me.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"Polite" and "friendly" are not the same thing to me.

Neither are they to me. I sometimes use "/" instead of "," for conveniences sake so I can understand where a misunderstanding/misreading may occur (dammit, I did it again!).

[ssiguy]

Interesting I met some people I had never met before yesterday and the topic of Vancouver's aloofness came up. Nearly everyone said how hard it is to make friends in Vancouver.

As I said earlier, I think a lot of it has to do with the citizens priorities.

It's an outdoorsy kind of place but puts an emphasis on solitary one............biking, jogging, walking, gym, or yoga. It's interesting to note that according to StatsCan 2005 BC had the LOWEST level of sport registration amongst those under 18. Of course that goes against the grain but not really as it reinforces what I just said, BCers {starting from a young age} are socialized into non-communal sports hence being outdoorsy yet not registering for organized sport which by it's very nature is participatory.

This aided by the fact that BCers put a relatively low emphasis on cultural and artistic endeavors which are social by nature creates an independent lifestyle where "meeting people" is seen as a restriction to your personal pursuits.

BCers are not unfriendly but it's unique value system in the country doesn't lend itself to being very interactive or social. This is why so many people who move here end up moving back {except seniors who are here due to retirement} ............it's very socially constrained and alienating which most Canadians are simply not use to.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by ue

Edmonton I'd say is harder to place because of the changes underway here. It's a friendly place, with a huge community-driven spirit, but the whole reserved/polite Canadian thing is superimposed over it, so it's not an exuberant sort of friendliness like you'd find in the US or Quebec.

Things are changing, though. Not too long ago, it was hard not to come across random people on the street looking to strike up a conversation downtown with no ulterior motives. It was a quaint yet friendly (although perhaps startling to introverts) quality. That still happens, but less and less it feels like. As much as I enjoy the diversity and new perspectives that newcomers are bringing to Edmonton, and building it up so that it doesn't have such a small mindedness to it, I do think this is a result of that same influx of diversity from elsewhere.

My own observation is that Edmonton is a city of a thousand small towns, aloof and disunited, unwilling to attach themselves to any larger movement or identity other than their love of sport. From high on up, the city looks like your standard mass of prairie suburbia, but on closer inspection you can tell that Edmonton is much more fractured. Quite the opposite of Calgary's unnatural and overbearing (even nauseating) boosterism, I see Edmonton as being a skeptical and sometimes cynical place.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As I said earlier, I think a lot of it has to do with the citizens priorities.

It's an outdoorsy kind of place but puts an emphasis on solitary one............biking, jogging, walking, gym, or yoga. It's interesting to note that according to StatsCan 2005 BC had the LOWEST level of sport registration amongst those under 18. Of course that goes against the grain but not really as it reinforces what I just said, BCers {starting from a young age} are socialized into non-communal sports hence being outdoorsy yet not registering for organized sport which by it's very nature is participatory.

That's a very interesting statistic to quote, and I can relate to that.

I also think that activities like hiking or skiing also reinforce existing friendships at the expense of creating new ones. I mean, are you really going to go hike with a stranger? But when you're out there for hours among the Douglas firs, you can have deep and intense conversations with the people you know. I took the woman who would eventually be my wife on a hike near Squamish for our fourth date, and by the end of that day I knew I wanted to enter a serious long-term relationship with her.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

My own observation is that Edmonton is a city of a thousand small towns, aloof and disunited, unwilling to attach themselves to any larger movement or identity other than their love of sport. From high on up, the city looks like your standard mass of prairie suburbia, but on closer inspection you can tell that Edmonton is much more fractured. Quite the opposite of Calgary's unnatural and overbearing (even nauseating) boosterism, I see Edmonton as being a skeptical and sometimes cynical place.

I lived in Edmonton for barely 4 months for a summer job many years ago, so I'm not an expert on the Alberta cities, but two observations I made were:

1. Edmonton is topographically/geographically fractured. Downtown is on one side of a deep river valley, but the university and much of the urban life in Strathcona is on the other side. You can't go from one side to the other on foot very easily, so the city is sort of split into two.

2. During the Ralph Klein years - when I was there - most Edmontonians felt kind of united by their inferiority complex. They imagined that the Province basically fucked them over because a former mayor of Calgary was in charge. They attributed the lack of transit expansion or the fact that hospitals were closing with Calgary-favourtism. Whether this was true or not is debatable, but it gave Edmonton a "resigned underdog" feel.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

LOL, here (NB) he would have held the door an awkwardly long time in advance, creating the need for you to hurry to benefit from his politeness. It's sad, but true.

This happens all the time in Winnipeg. There have been times when someone like 10 metres ahead of me has held the door... yeesh. There is a tyranny of politeness that forces people to do this... you don't want people to think you're a jerk because you didn't hold the door for them.

[Beedok]

One thing I've found for both Hamilton and Thunder Bay is there seem to be two main groups of people: folks who hate the city and want to leave, or folks who will yap your ear off about the weirdest subjects if you don't run away fast enough. The Thunder Bay ones do sometimes have you on edge about whether or not they might do something really weird though...

Also I know that Winnipeggers like to jaywalk.

[lio45]

Regarding the topic of saying hi to strangers and randomly starting conversations with them, I'm far from sure it's an Anglo thing like some of you seem to think. When I came back to Quebec after two months in Texas I was shocked by how cold and distant strangers were in the streets here.

I had the same experience a decade ago in California, seems that everyone will chat with you over there. Maybe it's just me?

In the US Northeast though, people seem worse than in Quebec for ease of approach, no argument from me there. But still, there are resolutely North American Anglo places where people are friendly / friendlier than here, so that alone doesn't explain it.

Maybe I have a biased sample urban vs rural...? Though some of my CA sample is from walking in downtown Los Angeles. Homeless guys are usually pretty chatty -- maybe that's also skewing my samples.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

Calgary's boosterism is definitely a thing, one of the most interesting things about that city to me. To see people move there from other places and really adopt that culture is fascinating. I don't think it's a bad thing, I don't totally understand it, but it's certainly different. Vancouver has a booster streak as well but I find it is less boisterous than Calgary and more aloof.

I think a large part has to do with the people who are moving, and where they're moving from. Immigrants aside, those moving from Eastern Canada are coming from a relatively old, stagnant region, always plagued with this or that economic or political or infrastructural crisis, to a very fresh, new city that only ever seems to have good news, high wages, and optimistic people, and new everything. Nenshi also really gets things done. If you look at the last 10 years of municipal politics in any Eastern Canadian city, it's not hard to see why he's an absolute superstar in comparison (there are probably exceptions that I'm unaware of).

Then there are probably those moving from elsewhere in Alberta, etc. who are used to hearing about Calgary in the news a lot.

[Razor]

^ Yes..I couldn't agree more. Could it be that a lot of the hard core boosters are not from Alberta itself, but from hard scrabble areas in Eastern Canada?..A young person Just finding a decent paying job in Calgary job would feel like they arrived in the land of milk and honey..Perhaps some don't have a higher education and are happy to land any job that offers on the job training due to the labour shortage Alberta experienced...Whichever stagnant place they came from in Eastern Canada becomes a bad memory over time due to the hard go they had there.

Hence some of the bitterness towards Eastern Canada as well. I seen it first hand from young people I knew ...Relatives, etc...They don't ever plan on moving back.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by lio45

Regarding the topic of saying hi to strangers and randomly starting conversations with them, I'm far from sure it's an Anglo thing like some of you seem to think. When I came back to Quebec after two months in Texas I was shocked by how cold and distant strangers were in the streets here.

Americans take this to another level. You buy the same brand of sunscreen as some guy at Walgreen's and you end up hearing about his divorce.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I think a large part has to do with the people who are moving, and where they're moving from. Immigrants aside, those moving from Eastern Canada are coming from a relatively old, stagnant region, always plagued with this or that economic or political or infrastructural crisis, to a very fresh, new city that only ever seems to have good news, high wages, and optimistic people, and new everything. Nenshi also really gets things done. If you look at the last 10 years of municipal politics in any Eastern Canadian city, it's not hard to see why he's an absolute superstar in comparison (there are probably exceptions that I'm unaware of).

Then there are probably those moving from elsewhere in Alberta, etc. who are used to hearing about Calgary in the news a lot.

I think Nenshi's most important accomplishment has been to shift perceptions of Calgary in other parts of the country, and injecting more sophisticated discussions into the city's urban sphere. In terms of tangible stuff, his myth is maybe a bit exaggerated. I know a provincial-affairs reporter in Calgary who wanted to do a sort of gentle take-down of his legend, and point out that he hasn't really changed the city as much as he's credited as doing. He was moved to a different beat before he could tackle it, though...

(Arguably the city's separated bike lanes wouldn't have happened without him, but he hasn't altered suburban growth patterns fundamentally--sidewalk-less cul-de-sacs stamped further into the fragile prairie still represent the large majority of the city's development. And then there's that damn secondary suite thing.)

I definitely agree that a lot of Maritimers, born into a habitually pessimistic culture, get seduced by that western boosterism. I've noticed this especially in more blue-collar and rural communities where everyone knows people who've moved away to make more money, and of course phone back home with only the best spin on the move. The "there's no future here, pack up and do the right thing for your family" mentality is really strong in some communities, and rather depressing. (Of course, over time, they start to get all nostalgic and half of them move back.)

I once told a family friend--an old truck driver from southeeastern New Brunswick--that even though I grew up in Calgary, I like living in Halifax better, and he literally would not believe me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Regarding the topic of saying hi to strangers and randomly starting conversations with them, I'm far from sure it's an Anglo thing like some of you seem to think. When I came back to Quebec after two months in Texas I was shocked by how cold and distant strangers were in the streets here.

I had the same experience a decade ago in California, seems that everyone will chat with you over there. Maybe it's just me?

In the US Northeast though, people seem worse than in Quebec for ease of approach, no argument from me there. But still, there are resolutely North American Anglo places where people are friendly / friendlier than here, so that alone doesn't explain it.

Maybe I have a biased sample urban vs rural...? Though some of my CA sample is from walking in downtown Los Angeles. Homeless guys are usually pretty chatty -- maybe that's also skewing my samples.

Oh sure, if you extend it to the U.S. then it's completely different.

Quebec is IMO more outgoing and chatty than Canada west of the Ottawa River, but I wouldn't say that it is more than Atlantic Canada.

Most Atlantic Canadians don't find Quebecers particularly friendly, and this also goes for Acadian francophones for whom there is no language barrier. (Although Acadians do find Quebecers are fun and see a "wilder" streak in them than in Acadians.)

I guess it all depends where you are from and what you are accustomed to. For example, people from France generally find Quebecers to be extremely friendly and down to earth. If I had a dollar for every time a Frenchman told me that human warmth (chaleur humaine) in Quebec more than makes up for the cold weather, I'd be rich. It's almost become a cliché.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Americans take this to another level. You buy the same brand of sunscreen as some guy at Walgreen's and you end up hearing about his divorce.

This past summer I was taking a leak in the bathroom of a restaurant in the Deep South of the U.S.

Not too far away there was an old guy in his 70s (at least) with a walker. He was washing his hands.

Anyway, right out of the blue he says to me: "You know, buddy, if you shake it more than three times they'll fuckin' say you're playin' with it! Hahahaha..."

And then just like that he walked out of the bathroom, and then gently took the arm of a spiffied-up little old lady that looked like Betty White in Golden Girls, and slowly walked to their car.

I thought to myself: Could you see this happening in, say, Brockville, Ontario? Naaaaaaaaah.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This past summer I was taking a leak in the bathroom of a restaurant in the Deep South of the U.S.

Not too far away there was an old guy in his 70s (at least) with a walker. He was washing his hands.

Anyway, right out of the blue he says to me: "You know, buddy, if you shake it more than three times they'll fuckin' say you're playin' with it! Hahahaha..."

And then just like that he walked out of the bathroom, and then gently took the arm of a spiffied-up little old lady that looked like Betty White in Golden Girls, and slowly walked to their car.

I thought to myself: Could you see this happening in, say, Brockville, Ontario? Naaaaaaaaah.

Come on man, don't take your generalizations to such extremes, people are not caricatures. The social difference between a small Southern town and a big NorthEastern metro is maybe 10-20% tops. I hear even more extravagant stuff right here in Toronto, random old guys and young guys telling me in graphic detail what they intend to do with their dates that night, etc. both in washrooms and just randomly walking by either verbally or with funny gestures and a wink.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Come on man, don't take your generalizations to such extremes, people are not caricatures. The social difference between a small Southern town and a big NorthEastern metro is maybe 10-20% tops. I hear even more extravagant stuff right here in Toronto, random old guys and young guys telling me in graphic detail what they intend to do with their dates that night, etc. both in washrooms and just randomly walking by either verbally or with funny gestures and a wink.

I totally agree with you about the overall variance in behaviour: the middle is largely the same.

And yeah, any behaviour is possible in any place. Sure.

But I did live for the majority of my life in Ontario and the Maritimes, and never had anyone from that specific demographic do something like that in those particular circumstances: 10 am on a weekday in a Perkins/Cracker Barrel type of restaurant.

And I've spent a lot more hours of my life in Canada than I have in the U.S. South. Like a million times more.

[RWin]

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

Calgary's boosterism is definitely a thing, one of the most interesting things about that city to me. To see people move there from other places and really adopt that culture is fascinating. I don't think it's a bad thing, I don't totally understand it, but it's certainly different. Vancouver has a booster streak as well but I find it is less boisterous than Calgary and more aloof.

Maybe a bit of insight from a Calgary CBC Radio personality:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...oads-1.3340478