Birmingham Development News

[MovingAL]

Originally Posted by Tourian

I think its a silly idea. UAB and BSU should pool their money together and just invest in Legion Field.

Yeah, invest in a stadium that's one gust of wind from being condemned. Great idea.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by MovingAL

Yeah, invest in a stadium that's one gust of wind from being condemned. Great idea.

The Gator Bowl in Jacksonville was in pretty rough shape before it got rebuilt in 1994-1995.

[MovingAL]

Originally Posted by neilson

The Gator Bowl in Jacksonville was in pretty rough shape before it got rebuilt in 1994-1995.

And if B'ham needed a 70k seat stadium, then that'd be a good option. Even the proposed dome wasn't going to have 70k seat capacity.

Neither UAB or BSC need 70k seats. Also, the Greymont area could use something more attractive to potential improvement/investment than a stadium. Stadiums are better suited for commercial areas than residential zones.

A 40-45k seat stadium is all the B'ham Bowl needs right now. Plus that bowl game will probably be dead in a year or two. The Magic City Classic is the only game in B'ham that needs ~60k seats. So it wouldn't be in UAB's, BSC's, or B'ham's best interest to invest money into Legion Field or a replacement stadium in the same location.

UAB is better served by a 40-45k seat OCS and BSC is better served by a 10-15k seat OCS. B'ham could use a multipurpose facility to house large conventions, the Magic City Classic and maybe a reinvented B'ham Bowl. But Legion Field will not do and neither will a replacement stadium in the same location.

If B'ham could attract better sponsors for a bowl game to guarantee better teams, then maybe a 70k seat replacement stadium should be talked about. But as it stands, Legion Field has served its purpose.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Honestly, I don't see the Papajohns.com bowl withering away too soon.

I used to think that the best thing to do would be to invest all that money that the city was getting in overhauling Legion Field, but I'm starting to realize that while we have all loved and cherished that stadium, it's too far past fixing. The city hasn't just neglect the structure, but the surrounding area, and for much too long.

The city needs to level the stadium, and turn that space into a massive community space of some kind. They then need to recruit Regions to by the naming rights to a downtown stadium (preferably not domed) with a seating capacity of around 45K to 50K, with space around for future expansion if it were deemed necessary.

45K to 50K would be good for UAB and the bowl game. It would make the overall game experience more fun, attractive, and that's not to mention the massive amount of exposure downtown would receive from games being played inside of it.

If an NFL team (as unlikely as it is) were to approach city officials about bringing a team to the city, the 45K to 50K stadium could easily be expanded to an appropriate capacity, and in a relatively short amount of time.

Honestly, this way is cheaper in the long run, especially if you don't have a pro team lined up. And if one were to come along, I doubt the city, county, or state, wouldn't be willing to pony up the money to make the stadium the correct size and quality.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Ok, so I read in the Bham Biz Journal today that the Bham is ranked 13th for the most residents lost since 2000. Says it shrunk from 242,000 in 2000 to 230,000 in 2009. I know that sounds bad, but wasn't Birmingham at 228,000 in 2008? Maybe I'm just imagining things. I'm trying to look it up to check this out.

EDIT: Yea, I looked it up and the city of Birmingham had 229,000 people in 2007. (Couldn't find the info for 2008). So, the city appears to have rebounded. I think this is all probably old news, but it's promising.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by tredici

Ok, so I read in the Bham Biz Journal today that the Bham is ranked 13th for the most residents lost since 2000. Says it shrunk from 242,000 in 2000 to 230,000 in 2009. I know that sounds bad, but wasn't Birmingham at 228,000 in 2008? Maybe I'm just imagining things. I'm trying to look it up to check this out.

EDIT: Yea, I looked it up and the city of Birmingham had 229,000 people in 2007. (Couldn't find the info for 2008). So, the city appears to have rebounded. I think this is all probably old news, but it's promising.

In this day and age, we have to look at Metro areas, not strictly city populations.

Tell me where the combined population of Jefferson and Shelby Counties were in 2000 and where they are in 2010. I'm not even talking about the entire RSA, but rather just those 2 counties.

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by neilson

In this day and age, we have to look at Metro areas, not strictly city populations.

Tell me where the combined population of Jefferson and Shelby Counties were in 2000 and where they are in 2010. I'm not even talking about the entire RSA, but rather just those 2 counties.

Since 2000 the only county that really grew out of the two is Shelby.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by MovingAL

Yeah, invest in a stadium that's one gust of wind from being condemned. Great idea.

It is a great idea, since it would be a lot cheaper then building something from the ground up and it would see more use if it were shared by both colleges and also used for the Papajohns game.

Originally Posted by tredici

Honestly, I don't see the Papajohns.com bowl withering away too soon.

I used to think that the best thing to do would be to invest all that money that the city was getting in overhauling Legion Field, but I'm starting to realize that while we have all loved and cherished that stadium, it's too far past fixing. The city hasn't just neglect the structure, but the surrounding area, and for much too long.

The city needs to level the stadium, and turn that space into a massive community space of some kind. They then need to recruit Regions to by the naming rights to a downtown stadium (preferably not domed) with a seating capacity of around 45K to 50K, with space around for future expansion if it were deemed necessary.

45K to 50K would be good for UAB and the bowl game. It would make the overall game experience more fun, attractive, and that's not to mention the massive amount of exposure downtown would receive from games being played inside of it.

If an NFL team (as unlikely as it is) were to approach city officials about bringing a team to the city, the 45K to 50K stadium could easily be expanded to an appropriate capacity, and in a relatively short amount of time.

Honestly, this way is cheaper in the long run, especially if you don't have a pro team lined up. And if one were to come along, I doubt the city, county, or state, wouldn't be willing to pony up the money to make the stadium the correct size and quality.

But that's the thing. You either build a NFL stadium or you build a college stadium. The NFL wants a lot of luxury boxes and things to cater to the rich and 50-75K people is probably enough - however, they'd probably rather it be a dome. College stadiums tend to be bigger and more plebian. There's a reason LA still doesn't have a team even though they've got the Rose Bowl sitting right there. The NFL wants them to build a new high tech stadium that will probably cost 600mil to 1billion dollars and Cali is close to BK and just won't do it. Birmingham won't either so there's no need to build a half ass dome or nice new facility when it won't be up to NFL code anyway. Might as well rebuild what you've got into a nice college/highschool championship type stadium and roll with it.

If we could level Legion Field and replace it with a mini dome for up to 65K people that maybe could be upgraded to NFL staus later like you say, I'd be all for it if there weren't other things the city needs first.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Tourian

But that's the thing. You either build a NFL stadium or you build a college stadium. The NFL wants a lot of luxury boxes and things to cater to the rich and 50-75K people is probably enough - however, they'd probably rather it be a dome. College stadiums tend to be bigger and more plebian. There's a reason LA still doesn't have a team even though they've got the Rose Bowl sitting right there. The NFL wants them to build a new high tech stadium that will probably cost 600mil to 1billion dollars and Cali is close to BK and just won't do it. Birmingham won't either so there's no need to build a half ass dome or nice new facility when it won't be up to NFL code anyway. Might as well rebuild what you've got into a nice college/highschool championship type stadium and roll with it.

If we could level Legion Field and replace it with a mini dome for up to 65K people that maybe could be upgraded to NFL staus later like you say, I'd be all for it if there weren't other things the city needs first.

LA and the state of California are willing to put up the money to attract an NFL team, I just don't think the NFL is too keen on bringing one over there. If they saw any kind of big opportunity in LA, there would already be an NFL team there.

I used to be a huge proponent of the dome theory, but it's gotten to the point where Birmingham just needs a new stadium. It doesn't need to be anywhere near Legion Field, it needs to be downtown. The way economics are trending in the US, the Southeast, and even Alabama, downtown is where it needs to go. The ballpark is a fantastic idea.

If they're gonna build it, build it right. We can easily build a stadium that is up to NFL standards, even if an NFL team never comes. If anything it could become an outstanding recruiting tool for UAB.

If the city partnered with UAB and built a nice facility that could be expanded in the future if need be, I think you get some great bang for your buck.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by tredici

LA and the state of California are willing to put up the money to attract an NFL team, I just don't think the NFL is too keen on bringing one over there. If they saw any kind of big opportunity in LA, there would already be an NFL team there.

I don't think so. I really believe it has a lot to do with their lack of a facility. I read a great column focusing on exactly this. The writer talked about how Jacksonville was in trouble and in danger of being moved. How the prototype stadiums and flagships of the NFL are designed. LA is the largest TV market in the country. The only reason the NFL isn't keen on going there is because they want a facility built before they will grace them with a team.

I just don't think an NFL class facility can be built for cheap and to do it without the hopes of actually getting a team is a waste. A new baseball stadium to bring the Barons back (and to downtown) is an awesome idea though.

[TimCity2000]

i agree that the metro population is a better indicator... however i think it's still significant that the city itself seems to have stopped hemorrhaging residents. hopefully people will continue to move back in.

by the way, i posted pictures of birmingham's new railroad park in the city photos forum.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Stopped in Birmingham on my way to Tuscaloosa this afternoon. It was kinda cloudy, but I was still amazed. It turned out SO much better than I'd expected. I just pray that they expand it.

[Tourian]

Yes, my family and I have visited the RR Park twice already and we love it. It is very beautiful and well laid out. My wife was a bit annoyed by the skateboarders but there have been no sign of vagrants or troublemakers both times we've been there and there seemed to always be a good crowd. I hope the surrounding area develops quickly to capitalize on its success.

[shades valley]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Yes, my family and I have visited the RR Park twice already and we love it. It is very beautiful and well laid out. My wife was a bit annoyed by the skateboarders but there have been no sign of vagrants or troublemakers both times we've been there and there seemed to always be a good crowd. I hope the surrounding area develops quickly to capitalize on its success.

wow...it's open??? I can't wait to visit home and stop by there...

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by Tourian

I don't think so. I really believe it has a lot to do with their lack of a facility. I read a great column focusing on exactly this. The writer talked about how Jacksonville was in trouble and in danger of being moved. How the prototype stadiums and flagships of the NFL are designed. LA is the largest TV market in the country. The only reason the NFL isn't keen on going there is because they want a facility built before they will grace them with a team.

I just don't think an NFL class facility can be built for cheap and to do it without the hopes of actually getting a team is a waste. A new baseball stadium to bring the Barons back (and to downtown) is an awesome idea though.

The Jags aren't going anywhere. I think that's more of an LA pipe dream than anything else. Sure, they have struggled in recent years (its a rough economy) but there are a lot more NFL teams in worse shape.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by shades valley

wow...it's open??? I can't wait to visit home and stop by there...

Yes. Its been open for a few weeks now. Seems to be a success in my opinion and there are already plans being pushed forward for the surrounding area like a baseball park to move the Barons back to Birmingham.

[Dale]

Legion Field can't possibly be in worse shape than the Citrus Bowl, here in Orlando. Yet, it keeps soldiering on, hosting two BCS bowls. Now, there are plans for $175-million in renovations, but the city has no money, so they're doing a little here and a little there.

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by Dale

Legion Field can't possibly be in worse shape than the Citrus Bowl, here in Orlando. Yet, it keeps soldiering on, hosting two BCS bowls. Now, there are plans for $175-million in renovations, but the city has no money, so they're doing a little here and a little there.

Orlando struggling to make ends meet ?!

[Sulley]

Yeah... the whole housing bubble thing, remember?

However Orlando is still in 10x better health than Birmingham.

[Dyingyak]

Originally Posted by Dale

Legion Field can't possibly be in worse shape than the Citrus Bowl, here in Orlando. Yet, it keeps soldiering on, hosting two BCS bowls. Now, there are plans for $175-million in renovations, but the city has no money, so they're doing a little here and a little there.

Has Orlando had to demolish part of the Citrus Bowl because it was deemed a safety hazard?