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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 3:33 AM
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In Northern Ontario, the countries exist mainly for legal purposes, typically criminal law (it will determine which courthouse you go to) or property law (legal title is described by township and county/district, not municipality). Cities are entities that deliver public services. That's kind of how it's working in New York; instead of having a single district attorney and courthouse for the city, each borough (country) has its own. It splits the work up and makes it a bit more local.

On the topic of this thread, the positive aspect of Doug Ford's premiership is the positive aspect I see of Donald Trump's presidency, and that is that the way they're both behaving is seriously motivating the political left into action.

Like Trump, Doug Ford has this impression that his predecessor was essentially a malicious dictator, whose every action was planned purposefully to hurt people like him, and now that he is in charge, he wants to take revenge on them by cancelling out their legacy. But the other really interesting aspect to their perception of their predecessors being malicious is that they're acting malicious too, not because they are, but because they perceived their predecessor as acting that way and so feel that they get to act that way as well. Doug Ford is making crazy decisions left and right because he thought Kathleen Wynne made crazy decisions left and right, and he's under the impression that since she did it, he can too.

What he doesn't realize, is that Kathleen Wynne became the least popular premier in the province while doing this, and Barack Obama was constantly vilified by the only press that Donald Trump actually seems to care about.

It's going to be their downfall. They'reso radical that they drive the population into the arms of the left.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 4:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
In Northern Ontario, the countries exist mainly for legal purposes, typically criminal law (it will determine which courthouse you go to) or property law (legal title is described by township and county/district, not municipality). Cities are entities that deliver public services. That's kind of how it's working in New York; instead of having a single district attorney and courthouse for the city, each borough (country) has its own. It splits the work up and makes it a bit more local.

On the topic of this thread, the positive aspect of Doug Ford's premiership is the positive aspect I see of Donald Trump's presidency, and that is that the way they're both behaving is seriously motivating the political left into action.

Like Trump, Doug Ford has this impression that his predecessor was essentially a malicious dictator, whose every action was planned purposefully to hurt people like him, and now that he is in charge, he wants to take revenge on them by cancelling out their legacy. But the other really interesting aspect to their perception of their predecessors being malicious is that they're acting malicious too, not because they are, but because they perceived their predecessor as acting that way and so feel that they get to act that way as well. Doug Ford is making crazy decisions left and right because he thought Kathleen Wynne made crazy decisions left and right, and he's under the impression that since she did it, he can too.

What he doesn't realize, is that Kathleen Wynne became the least popular premier in the province while doing this, and Barack Obama was constantly vilified by the only press that Donald Trump actually seems to care about.

It's going to be their downfall. They'reso radical that they drive the population into the arms of the left.
So people are going between left and right every now and then.
What about the centrists then?
Also why did your name all of a sudden go green?
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 4:25 AM
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So people are going between left and right every now and then.
What about the centrists then?
Centrists lose. People are overemotional hyperbolic wrecks, we don't have time for logic and thinking through.

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Also why did your name all of a sudden go green?
My name was always green. I have the power to change the CN Tower from "completed" to "demolished" and back again.

Rest easy, though! I do not use this power in this way.
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  #44  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 1:33 PM
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Ford's move, and how it highlighted the impotence of cities, might renew separatist interest. There was already an article in the Toronto Star that it's time to revisit the idea of Toronto separating from Ontario. The city is the goose that lays the golden eggs and is being sucked dry by the province and the feds.

Being its own province would allow Toronto to better control its future. Mayor Tory rightly complained about feeling like a little boy in short pants begging for dollars from Queen' Park. Being part of Ontario is holding the city back.

It's urban Canada that fuels this country's prosperity but it's the provinces with all the power. It's a broken system.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 5:36 PM
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Like Trump, we are creating an environment where both politicians and the press are vilified. Next will be the judiciary. All three pillars of democracy potentially under attack.

I read some of the comments for a CBC video on this subject. The viewpoint being expressed that Doug Ford acting as a dictator is best. There were repeated demands to get rid of local politicians and the press. Corruption is rampant, but a strong leader using his power to excess is not a concern at all.

Nobody is really thinking this out.
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Ford's move, and how it highlighted the impotence of cities, might renew separatist interest. There was already an article in the Toronto Star that it's time to revisit the idea of Toronto separating from Ontario. The city is the goose that lays the golden eggs and is being sucked dry by the province and the feds.
If Toronto is even remotely thinking about this then Ottawa-Gatineau would be wise to simultaneously seek National Capital status, whatever that would entail. Perhaps Ottawa's relative position within Ontario would improve by removing Toronto but at the same time it faces the same issues that Toronto currently faces but on a smaller, more interprovincial scale.

Obviously Quebec would never go for losing Gatineau, so it's moot anyway.
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 6:13 PM
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Is there any other developed nation in the world where it's capital is part of a large unwieldy sub-national entity rather than it's own division? I can't think of one
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Ford's move, and how it highlighted the impotence of cities, might renew separatist interest. There was already an article in the Toronto Star that it's time to revisit the idea of Toronto separating from Ontario. The city is the goose that lays the golden eggs and is being sucked dry by the province and the feds.

Being its own province would allow Toronto to better control its future. Mayor Tory rightly complained about feeling like a little boy in short pants begging for dollars from Queen' Park. Being part of Ontario is holding the city back.

It's urban Canada that fuels this country's prosperity but it's the provinces with all the power. It's a broken system.
I don't think it's that simple. A national economy is a complex interwoven tapestry.

Cities have a lot of the population and wealth but a lot of the jobs in cities are related to either the marketing of stuff from the "regions", transforming them or shipping them, or simply managing money that's generated as a result of its existence.
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  #49  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 7:07 PM
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All these comments on this thread exemplify why I started this thread in the first place. Ford has done something he didn`t expect...…….he has put the plight of our cities on the national agenda. He has opened the bottle and it will be hard to put the genie back in now that our cities finally have an ally in Ottawa.


Of course people outside the GTA wouldn't even notice Toronto leaving the province...........they already think they live in Torontario.
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  #50  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Like Trump, we are creating an environment where both politicians and the press are vilified. Next will be the judiciary. All three pillars of democracy potentially under attack.

I read some of the comments for a CBC video on this subject. The viewpoint being expressed that Doug Ford acting as a dictator is best. There were repeated demands to get rid of local politicians and the press. Corruption is rampant, but a strong leader using his power to excess is not a concern at all.

Speaking of which... https://globalnews.ca/news/4363921/o...s-now-twitter/
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  #51  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 8:15 PM
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I have yet to talk to anyone from Toronto who does not think it is a bad idea to reduce the #. it is mostly CBC types that support big govt and even larger waste that want to keep the overinflated status quo and are afraid of change. Thankfully this is slowly changing.

Last edited by kel; Aug 1, 2018 at 8:18 PM. Reason: Spell
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  #52  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 10:05 PM
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Anyone who thinks this is anything but petty political retribution is fooling themselves. If it was just about having an appropriately sized municipal government to "reduce waste" it would have been a measure that applied to Ontario municipalities generally, not just singling out Toronto.

And the idea that it's the left that's terrified of change when the right has built its entire brand on being reactionary, terrified of change conservatives (conserve meaning keep things as they are) is ridiculous. The problem is that if there's any positive change to be had, it certainly isn't coming from a moron like Ford. Although i admit, he was always the brighter of the brothers.

But on the bright side, al least I understand a bit better how these types get votes. People just believe whatever they say. Doesn't have to be true or to even make any sense. If they say something like, "This ridiculous clusterfuck idea is necessary to save money! Stop the gravy train!!" people will just believe it.
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  #53  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kel View Post
I have yet to talk to anyone from Toronto who does not think it is a bad idea to reduce the #. it is mostly CBC types that support big govt and even larger waste that want to keep the overinflated status quo and are afraid of change. Thankfully this is slowly changing.
I'm sure you've talked to dozens, hundreds, even thousands of Torontonians...and they all agree with Doug Ford!
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  #54  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 11:45 PM
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Toronto isn't going anywhere, too many people have property and cottages outside the GTA. They'll want to have access to the same healthcare system and government services.
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  #55  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 1:05 AM
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It's crazy that Ottawa will have 23 and Toronto 25. When asked, Doug rambled on about how great Ottawa is and how Toronto is not. He's a dumbass.
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  #56  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 4:13 AM
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Can I just point out how ironic it is that Torontonian said it would be impossible for Northern Ontario to separate but now they're all saying they're going to separate?

Also, Doug Ford separates with you and if his brother could get elected as your mayor you can bet your ass he'll be elected your first premier. If anything, Ontario should want to kick Toronto out of rid itself of him.
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  #57  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 6:01 AM
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^ No kidding. I think this is what pisses off Torontonians the most...……...the GTA voted Ford into office as almost none of the other major cities did.
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  #58  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 1:24 PM
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It's crazy that Ottawa will have 23 and Toronto 25. When asked, Doug rambled on about how great Ottawa is and how Toronto is not. He's a dumbass.
Calgary has 14 councillors for a population of ~1.3M, not too far off the new ratio in Toronto.
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  #59  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kel View Post
I have yet to talk to anyone from Toronto who does not think it is a bad idea to reduce the #. it is mostly CBC types that support big govt and even larger waste that want to keep the overinflated status quo and are afraid of change. Thankfully this is slowly changing.
I think the bigger issue isn't the reduction itself but that it was being implemented the day before nominations closed. People have already committed themselves to run and probably raised money for the campaign. Now, some candidates will be scrambling. This creates chaos for the 2018 municipal election which is never a good thing. This all comes across as political retribution. If it was not, then this could have been implemented for the 2022 municipal election.
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  #60  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 2:56 PM
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It's crazy that Ottawa will have 23 and Toronto 25. When asked, Doug rambled on about how great Ottawa is and how Toronto is not. He's a dumbass.
Ottawa is a little different because it has a very large rural expanse. Reducing the size of council too much will result in no rural representation on council and therefore no say on affairs that affect rural residents. Someone said to reduce council to 8 in Ottawa, 4 inside the Greenbelt and 4 outside the Greenbelt. At that point, those 4 councillors outside the Greenbelt will mainly serve the large suburban satellite cities. The other concern when reducing council is that the mayor's powers increase. This is something that Doug Ford supports and is worrisome. I prefer the consensus model of running a city rather than having a strong man acting as a CEO dictator. From an Ottawa perspective, I can see how this can become problematic as the current mayor is already very effective at running the city 'his way'.

Others have stated that reducing council makes councillors look at the bigger picture more, and that it is a good thing to forget about local issues. I question the latter part of this argument. If nobody elected is concerned about issues at a neighbourhood level, how do we make sure that neighbourhoods are working well, that things are repaired and that neighbourhoods don't descend into crime ridden slums. I do not think we can rely on community associations alone as these are very hit and miss and they are non-democratic bodies often with specific agendas. My own neighbourhood has not had a community association for decades because of lack of cohesion.
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