Zibi (Domtar Lands Redevelopment) | U/C

[Boxster]

I believe there is an opportunity for the city of Gatineau along with a business partner to develop alongside Laurier St. on current Domtar land if the NCC drags its feet. No need to wait for Chaudiere or Victoria island development plan approvals which could take a decade.

[J.OT13]

The NCC should stick with what they know; parks. They can build parks on their land to allow Windmill to build useable space like condos, offices, hotels and entertainment.

[Skipper]

According to the Windmill Development Website July 15th press release, they indicated that "Until the sale of the land has been confirmed, Windmill will not be granting interviews to media". Does anyone know what the status of this project as of now?

[agl]

With the city of Gatineau pondering rapid transit options for Aylmer, this would be an excellent time to consider integration of a tramway line into the new development, either just as the downtown Hull spur line to service Place du portages, with Ottawa bound line on the Prince of Wales bridge, or put the Ottawa bound line on the Eddy Bridge and soon to be newly constructed Booth street over the Confederation line. Then bring the line up Albert/Slater or Wellington as part of a downtown Ottawa/Gatineau loop.

The challenge I see with the tramway plan (www.planaylmer.wordpress.com) that fellow skyscraper Aylmer posted in another thread is combining trams and buses on promenade du portage, with a couple of tight turns at l'hôtel du ville and Laurier. A dedicated tramway line servicing the new development beside Laurier would resolve that, plus provide access to the museum of civilisation and proposed Destination Gatineau plans (which I'm not too crazy about in their current form).

[Aylmer]

That's definitely an option. It would be of slightly less service to Vieux-Hull, but if they're serious about redeveloping the Domtar lands south of Laurier and are willing to do more than turn it into the proposed fields of grass of Destination Gatineau, then I think it'd be a great way to give Hull the vibrancy a downtown core of a city our size deserves.

Very interesting proposition...

[eternallyme]

Tramway? Wouldn't extending the O-Train achieve similar goals?

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Tramway? Wouldn't extending the O-Train achieve similar goals?

It's the proposal here in Gatineau: at-grade LRT to the west of the city using the Nouveau-Tramway of several French cities (Montpellier, Le Mans, Paris, Lyon, etc.). There's no proper term for the kinda hybrid nature of these systems (LRT vehicles and ROW, but streetcar modest stations, at-grade operation and low cost), so the term "Tramway" is used as opposed to "Streetcar".

[J.OT13]

Having a rail link (tram or otherwise) across the Chaudière seems like an important consideration. This could be Ottawa's only shot at a proper waterfront development and this kind of high profile area should get premium transit service. Furthermore, with Windmill at the helm, it seems fitting to have electric rail serving the area as opposed to more buses. And of course, this could be part of the solution to eliminate all STO buses from Downtown Ottawa.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Having a rail link (tram or otherwise) across the Chaudière seems like an important consideration. This could be Ottawa's only shot at a proper waterfront development and this kind of high profile area should get premium transit service. Furthermore, with Windmill at the helm, it seems fitting to have electric rail serving the area as opposed to more buses. And of course, this could be part of the solution to eliminate all STO buses from Downtown Ottawa.

The biggest (and most developable) part of the Chaudière lands is the land just south of Laurier on the island of Hull, currently occupied by Domtar, if I'm not mistaken. LRT turning down Chaudière wouldn't serve much of Hull (which, according to the O-D Survey, is the destination for about as many trips as Ottawa for Aylmer and the Plateau).

Perhaps the route could be used by a circulator-style streetcar or bus as proposed by the NCC a while back as a way of connecting the destinations around the core (Parliament, Sparks St, the Market, Museum of Civ and eventually Montcalm and Chaudière.)

And the obsession with "eliminating" STO buses is getting unhealthy, IMO. I think a Bank Street Subway to Hull would go a long way to addressing traffic, but until that happens, we'll have to cope.

[TMA-1]

Fun with electrons. And other things. The lack of a physical barrier between the rail vehicles and the rest of the universe looks terrifying. Is this normal!?

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It's the proposal here in Gatineau: at-grade LRT to the west of the city using the Nouveau-Tramway of several French cities (Montpellier, Le Mans, Paris, Lyon, etc.). There's no proper term for the kinda hybrid nature of these systems (LRT vehicles and ROW, but streetcar modest stations, at-grade operation and low cost), so the term "Tramway" is used as opposed to "Streetcar".

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well, actually, I was thinking of something more along these crudely drawn-up lines:



The biggest (and most developable) part of the Chaudière lands is the land just south of Laurier on the island of Hull, currently occupied by Domtar, if I'm not mistaken. LRT turning down Chaudière wouldn't serve much of Hull (which, according to the O-D Survey, is the destination for about as many trips as Ottawa for Aylmer and the Plateau).

Perhaps the route could be used by a circulator-style streetcar or bus as proposed by the NCC a while back as a way of connecting the destinations around the core (Parliament, Sparks St, the Market, Museum of Civ and eventually Montcalm and Chaudière.)

And the obsession with "eliminating" STO buses is getting unhealthy, IMO. I think a Bank Street Subway to Hull would go a long way to addressing traffic, but until that happens, we'll have to cope.

First off, I wouldn't call my wanting to eliminate STO buses from downtown streets "unhealthily" or an "obsession". I don't think about it day and night, I only bring up the subject when we talk about interprovincial transit. Eliminating buses from downtown streets (or the vast majority) needs to be done eventually, just as they eliminated streetcars from city streets in 59'.

That said, crossing the Bank Subway across to Hull would be extremely expensive (tunneling under the River), not to mention security concerns of a tunnel running under the Parliamentary Precinct (which includes everything north of Wellington between the Portage and the Canal). Bank Street subway should turn east under Rideau to Vanier.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by TMA-1

Fun with electrons. And other things. The lack of a physical barrier between the rail vehicles and the rest of the universe looks terrifying. Is this normal!?

Not any more terrifying than buses... They're meant to fit in the urban landscape whereas more metro-like LRT is meant to be a totally reserved space for the purposes of mobility. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Here's a more extreme example of interaction:



But most of the time, it looks like this:

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

First off, I wouldn't call my wanting to eliminate STO buses from downtown streets "unhealthily" or an "obsession". I don't think about it day and night, I only bring up the subject when we talk about interprovincial transit. Eliminating buses from downtown streets (or the vast majority) needs to be done eventually, just as they eliminated streetcars from city streets in 59'.

Sorry, it was a little harsh. I just don't like the idea that someone is less 'worthy' of being on a street because he or she's on a bus, in a car, on a bike or on foot. Though the idea that the streetcars had to be eliminated is debatable since I don't see how the buses are a significant improvement.

That said, crossing the Bank Subway across to Hull would be extremely expensive (tunneling under the River), not to mention security concerns of a tunnel running under the Parliamentary Precinct (which includes everything north of Wellington between the Portage and the Canal). Bank Street subway should turn east under Rideau to Vanier.

Expensive, yes, but it doesn't pass under anything of particular importance. I don't know how much of an issue that is.

I wish I could see some topographic maps of the Ottawa River around Downtown: I believe the Hill is on an escarpment, but I think the red of the river is relatively shallow, judging from the little, flat islands in the middle of the river.

But alas, even if it were easy, it won't be done in the next decade, if ever. Though I do believe it would be a total game-changer since the downtown cores would suddenly be closely linked in a way which they are most definitely aren't at the moment. Plus, there aren't many obvious options for a transit link between Ottawa and Hull (Portage Bridge? Alexandra? Gondolas? Slingshots?)

[K-133]

NCC noun


-1- To hinder, cause headache, or otherwise delay worthwhile projects with a limited understanding of scope, costs and capacities;

-2- to horde lands and otherwise allow for the natural decay and degradation of lands and buildings without respect for thy neighbours; or,

-3- to take from others through means of a bullying and arrogant demeanor e.g. old town cottages along the Ottawa River

Antonyms
Partnership, constructive, progress, innovate, evolve, nurture, better, manage

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Sorry, it was a little harsh. I just don't like the idea that someone is less 'worthy' of being on a street because he or she's on a bus, in a car, on a bike or on foot. Though the idea that the streetcars had to be eliminated is debatable since I don't see how the buses are a significant improvement.

Expensive, yes, but it doesn't pass under anything of particular importance. I don't know how much of an issue that is.

I wish I could see some topographic maps of the Ottawa River around Downtown: I believe the Hill is on an escarpment, but I think the red of the river is relatively shallow, judging from the little, flat islands in the middle of the river.

But alas, even if it were easy, it won't be done in the next decade, if ever. Though I do believe it would be a total game-changer since the downtown cores would suddenly be closely linked in a way which they are most definitely aren't at the moment. Plus, there aren't many obvious options for a transit link between Ottawa and Hull (Portage Bridge? Alexandra? Gondolas? Slingshots?)

Sorry, I didn't mean the streetcars had to be taken out (though someone, I believe it was lrt's freind pointed to a few decent reasons to do so), but were nonetheless they were completely eliminated. I wish they kept that service, or at least most of it. They could have done like Toronto and replaced the busiest route(s) with subways. Also, I don't think STO is less worthy than OC; buses in general are less worthy than electric rail or subways.

As for security; the feds raised concerns when the City came up with the Queen Street plan, so I think they may have a problem with a subway line a few meters from the West Block and the Confederation Building.

I still advocate some sort of tram loop around the two downtowns, at least until the RapiBus is converted to metro standard and a tunnel is built to bridge the gap between Montcalm and the Rideau Centre.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Skipper

According to the Windmill Development Website July 15th press release, they indicated that "Until the sale of the land has been confirmed, Windmill will not be granting interviews to media". Does anyone know what the status of this project as of now?

We were supposed to hear something in early September

[Boxster]

A tramway will never see the day light in the Aylmer part of Gatineau. This is only a lot of hot air as Aylmer does not have the population to support.This idea comes from ACTION GATINEAU which is an unwanted political party at the municipal level which is now trying to take out the existing mayor.

Originally Posted by agl

With the city of Gatineau pondering rapid transit options for Aylmer, this would be an excellent time to consider integration of a tramway line into the new development, either just as the downtown Hull spur line to service Place du portages, with Ottawa bound line on the Prince of Wales bridge, or put the Ottawa bound line on the Eddy Bridge and soon to be newly constructed Booth street over the Confederation line. Then bring the line up Albert/Slater or Wellington as part of a downtown Ottawa/Gatineau loop.

The challenge I see with the tramway plan (www.planaylmer.wordpress.com) that fellow skyscraper Aylmer posted in another thread is combining trams and buses on promenade du portage, with a couple of tight turns at l'hôtel du ville and Laurier. A dedicated tramway line servicing the new development beside Laurier would resolve that, plus provide access to the museum of civilisation and proposed Destination Gatineau plans (which I'm not too crazy about in their current form).

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Boxster

A tramway will never see the day light in the Aylmer part of Gatineau. This is only a lot of hot air as Aylmer does not have the population to support.This idea comes from ACTION GATINEAU which is an unwanted political party at the municipal level which is now trying to take out the existing mayor.

Tells us how you really feel!

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Tells us how you really feel!

Must be the weather today.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Eliminating buses from downtown streets (or the vast majority) needs to be done eventually

Why?

That said, crossing the Bank Subway across to Hull would be extremely expensive (tunneling under the River), not to mention security concerns of a tunnel running under the Parliamentary Precinct

What security concerns?