[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by Architype

More expensive than Halifax & Montreal?

Here's an article about high end housing prices:



Article from:
http://www.vocm.com/news-info.asp?id=31392

^ that's insane!

i saw the article yesterday as well, and i do wonder exactly how "executive" home is actually defined (? sq. footage? quality of materials used? anything over $300,000??), as this average $ is the average high-end home price . . . as things continue to unfold with our neighbours to the south, i continue to worry exactly when the foundation of the local market will start to crack and morph into something a little healthier in the long run


btw - thanks for the info on the downtown / janeway sites...

[Architype]

From what I have seen in Montreal, I would have expected it to have more higher end homes way out of the range of St. John's, but I'm not really that familiar with Montreal. The criteria might have been based on a specific market niche. I think St John's real estate was undervalued for a long time, and is now just catching up because of the boosted economy. I don't know if there will need to be any market correction or drop in prices like certain other places (ie. Calgary, Vancouver etc).

[HomeInMyShoes]

This is the first I've heard of the concept of a tunnel to Bell Island.

I have to believe that the $95 million estimate is out by about a factor of five though. If it really was only $95 million I'd say sure, but there's no way you can build a tunnel that long for that kind of price.

[Architype]

It makes about as much sense as the Bridge to nowhere, and I had not heard of it before. The island's population is only about 2,400. A bridge might work if pork barrels will float.

[HomeInMyShoes]

St. John's East is my riding so I'm trying to pay attention to everything the candidates are saying. I don't know if part of the theory is that improved access might reopen the mine so there's some economic benefit to the concept. Given the population numbers it's more than a little misguided.

Bell Island is quite pretty, but I think I'd miss watching the ferries when eating at Beachy Cove Cafe.

[Architype]

The 95 million would be better spent on a study for rapid transit in the city, as it would have an actual purpose. There is no apparent connection between the mines and the tunnel. Fogo Island is nice too, and a bridge there would make more sense.

[Architype]

N.L. population grows by 1,400 in first annual increase in 16 years

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — The outmigration of people from Newfoundland and Labrador may be coming to a halt.

For the first time in 16 years, the province has recorded an annual increase in its population. The provincial government says the population has risen by 1,436 in the year since July 1, 2007.

The province's population is estimated to be 507,895, according to a Statistics Canada report released Monday.

http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...8OPi3MHQgUHp4A



That's good considering there must be still declining populations in many smaller towns; much of the growth would have been in the St. John's region.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I think that is the case. I heard somewhere (haven't got any statistics to back it up) that Paradise is one of the fastest growing communities in Canada.

[MrChills]

When I first read the Bell Island tunnel info, I laughed and thought what a waste of money. However, with the rapid increase in housing in the St. John's metro, and with all Bell Islands breathtaking beauty - if you put in a tunnel that made it fast to get in and off the island at anytime, I think realestate and growth on the island could explode. Where else in the world could you live on an island off an island next to sea for that cheap and be able to commute 20-30 minutes to a medium sized city.

[Architype]

Re: Tunnel to Bell Island, here's a few facts I dug up -

Bell Island is 34 sq km in area, or less than half the size of Manhatten Island (87.5 km²), but larger than peninsular Halifax. It could possibly support a population of about 40,000 at suburban densities. Aside from that, it is only a relatively small part of the the available land in the St. John's metro area. Likely, a tunnel would only have two or three lanes at best, and would be prone to some congestion if 40,000 people were depending on it.

Distance to Bell Island - 4 km (approx)
A. Murray MacKay Bridge, Halifax - Total length 1.2 kilometres
Angus L. Macdonald Bridge, Halifax - Total length 1.3 kilometres
Confederation Bridge PEI - Total length 12.9 km (cost $1.3 billion.)
Lions Gate Bridge Vancouver - Total length 1.8 km
Port Mann Bridge, Metro Vancouver 2.09 km, including approach spans
Golden Gate Bridge, San Fransisco - Total length 2.7 km
Golden Ears Bridge (Metro Vancouver) under construction - a span of 968 m - to open in the summer of 2009 and has a fixed total construction cost of $808 million.

Although I just looked at bridges and costs, it seems like the estimated cost of $93 million is many times lower than what it would actually be.


^Map from Google

That's just my two cents, maybe someone has better figures on tunnel building costs - it depends upon topography etc.

[HomeInMyShoes]

If it were only 93 million, I'd say maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'd doubt that figures even remotely accurate. The candidate did talk about improvements in tunnel building technology making it cheaper to build now, but construction costs have gone through the roof so I can't imagine the offset in costs amounts to anything. I'd still estimate (total knee jerk one here) around half a billion. It's four kilometers. The other caveat is that Portugal Cove Road and Thorburn Road along with the Beachy Cove portion would need a serious upgrade to support any density on Bell Island. Although maybe they'd build some rapid transit/go bus kind of option which I would really like.

I should have a new photo thread up this week (weather permitting to get some filler material.) Here's a preview:

[Architype]

^ Those photos look great, I'll be looking forward to your thread, some of MUN should be interesting.

_____________________________________

Here's something else -

Here is a construction photo from St. John's Telegram, showing the Tiffany building:


Credit: Rhonda Hayward/The Telegram

Article about construction industry and delayed capital works projects here:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=178246&sc=79

(Forumers - we need more photos like this for the forum)

[HomeInMyShoes]

How about this? What is going on with what I'll call the Cabot Building? And as promised click the photo for the new photothread.

[redrocks]

Has anyone else heard any further news about the proposed Johnson Insurance office tower? I heard only one vague news story from CBC several weeks ago about it, but nothing since. Are we talking a 12 story tower or 6? Love to see some new development on the west side of New Gower Street.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

How about this? What is going on with what I'll call the Cabot Building? And as promised click the photo for the new photothread.

Your thread is probably the best I've seen, great photography! I think you can give some professional photographers a run for their money if you want because you have a good style.

Is the building you pictured on Duckworth or Water St? I guess it is one more of many that have been or will be totally renovated. That's good to see. I've seen similar projects, where often an extra story can be added unobtrusively.

Originally Posted by redrocks

Has anyone else heard any further news about the proposed Johnson Insurance office tower? I heard only one vague news story from CBC several weeks ago about it, but nothing since. Are we talking a 12 story tower or 6? Love to see some new development on the west side of New Gower Street.

^Welcome to the forum Redrocks.

I think they said there wont be any more detail about this project released until 2009. I hope something goes ahead because St. John's certainly needs more class A office space downtown. I hope the economic slowdown doesn't affect St. John's when things are just beginning to pick up. Too many projects are not approved or become delayed so that they never happen at all. There was also a 5 storey office proposal three years ago for the Templetons property, but it seems to have disappeared from the radar.

Here is a rendering of the Templetons proposal from 2005:


Cr: gov.nf.ca

[kwajo]

Is the building you pictured on Duckworth or Water St? I guess it is one more of many that have been or will be totally renovated. That's good to see. I've seen similar projects, where often an extra story can be added unobtrusively.

It's on Duckworth, near Peter Belbin's Steakhouse. I believe the realtor was promising to 'build-to-suit' so he must have found someone to lease the building.

[HomeInMyShoes]

It's on Duckworth. In between Taste of Thai and the Tim Horton's. I was trying to think of something other than Timmie's, but alas, they are omnipresent. They looked to be adding something to the side, maybe a second entrance.

Thanks for the kind comments Architype.

[Architype]

^Your'e welcome
___________________________

Actually, here is a new update about the Johnson Building:

Johnson's hoping to set up shop at new downtown location
The Telegram

Johnson insurance company is hoping to move, but not out of the capital city.
The company is entering an application with the City of St. John’s today (FRIDAY) to build a new head office in downtown St. John’s. . . .

The company is working with real estate consulting firm Martek Morgan Finch on the new head office project, which they have proposed to be an eight story building comprising of 140,000 square feet, with nearly 600 parking spaces, most of which will be indoor.

The proposal also includes green space and will be designed so as not to interrupt sight lines of neighbours.

Complete article here:
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=179370&sc=79

That's an average of 17,500 sq ft per floor, which is a large footprint (about three times the Fortis building) for this area. The height of this building would probably be around 30 to 35 meters.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Things have obviously changed since I saw a preliminary concept. Although it sort of sucks that it's probably only housing JI it sounds like a drastic improvement over the rendering I saw. More height, some green space and more parking indoors.

[kingcobra]

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/10/10/house.html

New housing prices rising fastest in St. John's: Statistics Canada
Last Updated: Friday, October 10, 2008 | 10:19 AM ET Comments9Recommend8
CBC News

New house prices in Canada rose by 2.3 per cent in August compared with the same month a year earlier, with prices rising fastest in St. John's, N.L., says Statistics Canada.
August 2007 to August 2008 percentage change
Canada 2.3
St. John's 23.7
Halifax 7.2
Charlottetown 1.2
Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton 3.1
Québec 6.1
Montréal 5.2
Ottawa–Gatineau 4.1
Toronto and Oshawa 3.4
Hamilton 2.8
St. Catharines–Niagara 4.0
Kitchener 1.9
London 3.5
Windsor 0.7
Greater Sudbury and Thunder Bay 5.9
Winnipeg 6.7
Regina 23.1
Saskatoon 8.0
Calgary -1.1
Edmonton -5.7
Vancouver 1.5
Victoria -0.3

The New Housing Price Index, released Friday, shows St. John's with an annual price increase of 23.7 per cent. The steep rise was due mostly to material and labour costs, as well as higher land development costs, say builders in the city.

Regina had the second-highest annual increase at 23.1 per cent, down from its record increase of 34 per cent in April.

In Saskatoon, the year-over-year increase was eight per cent, but compared to July figures, the city's new housing prices actually dropped by 3.1 per cent.

Statistics Canada analysts say that month-over-month drop confirms a trend of "deceleration" in the city, due to slowing market conditions and stiff competition from the resale housing market.

Edmonton recorded a year-over-year drop of 5.7 per cent, which was a 23-year low, and Calgary (-1.1 per cent) registered the lowest annual price change since November 1991.

On the West Coast, the increase for Vancouver was 1.5 per cent, but in Victoria, prices dropped by 0.3 per cent year-over-year.

In Toronto, prices were 3.4 per cent higher than in August last year, and 4.1 per cent higher in Ottawa-Gatineau.

In Québec, the growth rate accelerated to 6.1 per cent, while in Montréal, prices increased 5.2 per cent.

Whoa! It is something that I have never seen in St. John's!