Huntsville updates

[mp7123]

Only issue I have with the project is that the incentives were tied to total investment instead of number of jobs. In previous local economic announcements, clawbacks were included in case the companies didn't live up to their side of number of jobs they promised. I know the probability is low, but what if in 10 years, Toyota decides to close the plant? 1.6 billion dollars is nothing to them at the end of the day.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by mp7123

Only issue I have with the project is that the incentives were tied to total investment instead of number of jobs. In previous local economic announcements, clawbacks were included in case the companies didn't live up to their side of number of jobs they promised. I know the probability is low, but what if in 10 years, Toyota decides to close the plant? 1.6 billion dollars is nothing to them at the end of the day.

A portion of the state's incentive's are tied to employment, albeit, a small amount...

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by mp7123

Only issue I have with the project is that the incentives were tied to total investment instead of number of jobs. In previous local economic announcements, clawbacks were included in case the companies didn't live up to their side of number of jobs they promised. I know the probability is low, but what if in 10 years, Toyota decides to close the plant? 1.6 billion dollars is nothing to them at the end of the day.

If Toyota/Mazda close a 1.6 billion plant with 3-4000 jobs then we have a much bigger problem nationwide.
Think Remington and maybe Polaris have similar incentives

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

If Toyota/Mazda close a 1.6 billion plant with 3-4000 jobs then we have a much bigger problem nationwide.
Think Remington and maybe Polaris have similar incentives

Agreed. Even though people view 1.6 billion as something that Toyota/Mazda might consider chump change, I don't think the companies' view it as so.

If they built the plant, fully employed it, and then suddenly shut it down... they would receive negative press and flack like no other auto-maker has experienced.

They would not have committed to this investment if they did not believe that this was a responsible investment. Billion dollar companies do not build billion dollar factories without considering current and future market trends.

If someone is concerned about the Toyota/Mazda plant, I think they can put their concerns at rest. These companies do not make decisions without considering the marketability of their cars in the future.

[downtownhsvguy]

So why is the proposed ballpark going to be in Madison instead of the old coke plant site across from the VBC? I know town Madison is going to be have a lot residential development but it seems out of place not in a downtown.. almost like joe davis stadium.. what is everyone's thoughts on this?

[skycaptain]

Originally Posted by downtownhsvguy

So why is the proposed ballpark going to be in Madison instead of the old coke plant site across from the VBC? I know town Madison is going to be have a lot residential development but it seems out of place not in a downtown.. almost like joe davis stadium.. what is everyone's thoughts on this?

I agree. And this would represent an enormous lost opportunity for Huntsville to grow its downtown. Right now, looks like Huntsville’s position is, “they want it, therefore we do not”. They should want it!!!

[stallty]

Originally Posted by skycaptain

I agree. And this would represent an enormous lost opportunity for Huntsville to grow its downtown. Right now, looks like Huntsville’s position is, “they want it, therefore we do not”. They should want it!!!

I feel like Downtown is the only place it will work long term. Battle's position has always been he is willing to talk to teams, but the team would have to have a significant buy in towards the stadium build. If its a 46 million stadium in Town Madison I would assume you are looking close to 60 million downtown.

With Breland as part of the teams ownership it will never be put in Huntsville. Breland not only sued the city and Battle, but he also gave 100k towards Battle's opponent.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by stallty

I feel like Downtown is the only place it will work long term. Battle's position has always been he is willing to talk to teams, but the team would have to have a significant buy in towards the stadium build. If its a 46 million stadium in Town Madison I would assume you are looking close to 60 million downtown.

With Breland as part of the teams ownership it will never be put in Huntsville. Breland not only sued the city and Battle, but he also gave 100k towards Battle's opponent.

I agree that the baseball stadium will never be located in Downtown Huntsville for several reasons:

1. One of the biggest reasons is that Louis Breland has part ownership in the team and he definitely believes that the City of Huntsville essentially stole the two anchors he had counted on for Town Madison - Belk was considering it until the City worked out a deal for them to build their flagship store at Bridge Street. Cabela's was also planning on going into Town Madison, but the City of Huntsville first enticed them with the old Sears building at Madison Square before selling them on their present location just south of Bridge Street. Loosing these two anchor stores has been a big impediment to the development of TM and Breland certainly isn't happy with the City of Huntsville.

2. Town Madison is actually closer to the economic center of the Huntsville area - which I would say is the I-565 and Research Park Boulevard Interchange. There are about 35,000 workers on Redstone Arsenal and almost 25,000 in Cummings Research Park. Also, add in those employed at the Greenbriar Rd. area - Polaris, Target and the soon to open GE Aircraft plant and in the future, the 4,000 who will be working at the Toyota/Mazda plant as well as those at the Remington plant near the airport, the I-565 corridor west of Huntsville is the economic engine of North Alabama.

3. Downtown is central to the City of Huntsville at the present time, however, the lion's share of growth will logically continue to go west. Also, the topography of having Monte Sano and the chain of mountains less than 2 miles to the east of Downtown Huntsville has definitely restricted growth to the east. Also, there are not significant numbers of workers in the Downtown area. The City of Huntsville has pretty detailed plans for the Limestone County annexed lands because they anticipate substantial population growth in this area.

4. The stadium at TM will essentially have its own interchange with I-565 and this will provide easy access to residents of Decatur and Athens. If you add the populations of both Morgan and Limestone Counties that is about 200,000 people, some of whom could be ticket buyers for the baseball games.

5. For whatever reason, the owners of the Mobile Bears didn't seek out the City of Huntsville - perhaps they considered the condition of the Joe Davis Stadium and decided that the City didn't have a strong enough commitment to minor league baseball.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by David1502

I agree that the baseball stadium will never be located in Downtown Huntsville for several reasons:

1. One of the biggest reasons is that Louis Breland has part ownership in the team and he definitely believes that the City of Huntsville essentially stole the two anchors he had counted on for Town Madison - Belk was considering it until the City worked out a deal for them to build their flagship store at Bridge Street. Cabela's was also planning on going into Town Madison, but the City of Huntsville first enticed them with the old Sears building at Madison Square before selling them on their present location just south of Bridge Street. Loosing these two anchor stores has been a big impediment to the development of TM and Breland certainly isn't happy with the City of Huntsville.

2. Town Madison is actually closer to the economic center of the Huntsville area - which I would say is the I-565 and Research Park Boulevard Interchange. There are about 35,000 workers on Redstone Arsenal and almost 25,000 in Cummings Research Park. Also, add in those employed at the Greenbriar Rd. area - Polaris, Target and the soon to open GE Aircraft plant and in the future, the 4,000 who will be working at the Toyota/Mazda plant as well as those at the Remington plant near the airport, the I-565 corridor west of Huntsville is the economic engine of North Alabama.

3. Downtown is central to the City of Huntsville at the present time, however, the lion's share of growth will logically continue to go west. Also, the topography of having Monte Sano and the chain of mountains less than 2 miles to the east of Downtown Huntsville has definitely restricted growth to the east. Also, there are not significant numbers of workers in the Downtown area. The City of Huntsville has pretty detailed plans for the Limestone County annexed lands because they anticipate substantial population growth in this area.

4. The stadium at TM will essentially have its own interchange with I-565 and this will provide easy access to residents of Decatur and Athens. If you add the populations of both Morgan and Limestone Counties that is about 200,000 people, some of whom could be ticket buyers for the baseball games.

5. For whatever reason, the owners of the Mobile Bears didn't seek out the City of Huntsville - perhaps they considered the condition of the Joe Davis Stadium and decided that the City didn't have a strong enough commitment to minor league baseball.

I remember growing up in Decatur going to Huntsville frequently for sports events, but mostly at the VBC (lots of hockey games). But my family almost never went to Stars games, even though both my brother and I grew up playing baseball. Main reason was because it more of a hassle. Joe Davis was just far enough down South Parkway for us to consider it too far.

If the ballpark was downtown, I think it's an easier sell. But, I do agree that having the stadium at TM is a probably the best location because it IS easy to get to from pretty much anywhere in the Huntsville-Decatur area. From my family home in SE Decatur, it's about half the distance to Joe Davis... an easy, easy drive.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

If the ballpark was downtown, I think it's an easier sell. But, I do agree that having the stadium at TM is a probably the best location because it IS easy to get to from pretty much anywhere in the Huntsville-Decatur area. From my family home in SE Decatur, it's about half the distance to Joe Davis... an easy, easy drive.

I think having the stadium at TM will be better for the area in the long run. I think we need to spread the development density further out because the cost of commercial property in the downtown core is a roadblock to chance taking except by deep pocket corporations.

[Huntsvillenative]

This new baseball stadium will be one of the best in the country! It's more than just a stadium, it is a gateway to a growing western side of the city. While it would have been nice in downtown, Ithink it's being built in the right location for the future of the city. Eventually Madison and Huntsville will annex. Most call Madison Huntsville now as it is. The Huntsville International Airport is in Madison. Most of the population of Huntsville is moving out westward as the inner part is becoming more lower class residents.

Having a stadium in Madison will pull in attendees from both Huntsville, Athens and Decatur aside from Madison.That's a big demographic crowd to advertise to. The Starsnever had that.

Don't be surprised if the stadium leads to a new 14,000 seat arena too. The VBC, even after renovated, is too small for this market size that is growing.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative

This new baseball stadium will be one of the best in the country! It's more than just a stadium, it is a gateway to a growing western side of the city. While it would have been nice in downtown, Ithink it's being built in the right location for the future of the city. Eventually Madison and Huntsville will annex. Most call Madison Huntsville now as it is. The Huntsville International Airport is in Madison. Most of the population of Huntsville is moving out westward as the inner part is becoming more lower class residents.

Having a stadium in Madison will pull in attendees from both Huntsville, Athens and Decatur aside from Madison.That's a big demographic crowd to advertise to. The Starsnever had that.

Don't be surprised if the stadium leads to a new 14,000 seat arena too. The VBC, even after renovated, is too small for this market size that is growing.

Huntsville will not annex Madison
and watch how much will have to be cut from this design

[Tennhioland]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Huntsville will not annex Madison
and watch how much will have to be cut from this design

We'll see, I'm hopefull $46M can build a very nice 7000 seat stadium with all the amenities. The new AAA Sounds 10,000 seat stadium in Nashville ended up costing about $90M. But a closer look at the numbers shows $47M for construction, $23M for land purchase and another $20M or so in added infrastructure and improvements to the area. The land is being "donated" to the city in Town Madison. And the infrastructure improvements are happening separately from the stadium cost.

[mp7123]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Huntsville will not annex Madison
and watch how much will have to be cut from this design

exactly. Those renderings are probably a $60-70M stadium. They have 45 to spend.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by mp7123

exactly. Those renderings are probably a $60-70M stadium. They have 45 to spend.

Private dollars poured in alongside the public dollars for Regions Field in Birmingham for a reason. Huntsville isn't well known for having tons of publicly traded companies, but there are enough of them that there will be enough to construct a quality stadium. Hell, Polaris, Remington, Mazda, Toyota, Boeing, Regions, etc... etc... etc... want their employees to be happy, and they will contribute, in pieces, thousands (if not millions) to make sure that their employee base is fat and happy.

A happy employee is one that can afford to attend a game, blow off some steam, and forget about the frustrating work week they just had.

[HSVTiger]

Possible new Lowes at corner of Winchester and Homer Nance. Site is being prepared now and it is a Large development, all the way from Homer Nance to Naugher Rd. along Winchester Rd. A good many out parcels with one probably a Chick-fil-A.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

Possible new Lowes at corner of Winchester and Homer Nance. Site is being prepared now and it is a Large development, all the way from Homer Nance to Naugher Rd. along Winchester Rd. A good many out parcels with one probably a Chick-fil-A.

Sprawl's just gonna keep on creeping up Winchester till it gets to New Market, isn't it... I've only driven Winchester Rd a few times, only during the workday, though. I imagine traffic is a nightmare along that corridor during rush.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

Sprawl's just gonna keep on creeping up Winchester till it gets to New Market, isn't it... I've only driven Winchester Rd a few times, only during the workday, though. I imagine traffic is a nightmare along that corridor during rush.

yep, the new Flint River Bridges are nearly complete, and Winchester will be four laned where it isn't from there west toward Moores Mill. This is a high growth corridor with lots of high end subdivisions further east.
The planned Northern Bypass is set to cross Winchester with an overpass about a mile or so west of this development.

[David1502]

Legacy Homes now has a webpage for their Trailhead development located off Moores Mill Rd. at US 72 East. https://www.legacyhomesal.com/trailhead
The pictures look like they plan for it to become almost a copy of the Village of Providence for the east of the mountain area near Chase. First of all, it will be a mixed use development with single family homes, multi-family (lofts, flats and townhomes), with 25 acres of distinctive retail (specialty retailers, restaurants and entertainment) and offices and a greenway which will connect to trails that lead to Monte Sano State Park.

There will be a total of 250 residential units (between the single family homes and apartments above the retail) and the artists renderings of the single family homes are the exact same houses you see at Providence. The homes will be on narrow streets with a rear alley that offers access for garages and utilities.

It is interesting that well over ten years ago, the Harris Hill development was announced for this site, but it promised a lot of big box retail and restaurants in addition to homes and apartments. The present development appears to be of a lot higher quality - It seems to a Village of Providence at a lower price point as the home prices will begin in the low 200's.

The question is how many mixed use developments can the Huntsville area support? When you look at Town Madison, Mid City Huntsville, Constellation, and the continued development of Providence, that is a lot for this area. Also, it will be interesting to see if Legacy Homes will be successful in attracting the retail and restaurants they desire. There are a lot of high income households along the Winchester Rd. corridor (e.g. Edenshire), however, it is yet to be determined if this population will venture past the Publix/Walmart retail areas on Winchester on a routine basis to frequent the Trailhead development.

Overall, the Trailhead development as currently proposed is of a lot higher quality than what was originally proposed.

[Huntsvillenative]

WAFF 48 News had a 3d rendering revealing tonight on the new expansion of the VBC North hall and live music venue. Very upscale and appealing! Will take 4 years to complete construction. It's the largest development ever on VBC.