Stop using "Northeastern", "Midwestern", "Sunbelt" etc. for Canadian cities?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Not meaning to veer the thread down a course that has been run countless times before, but those maps are just bizarre.

Michigan, Minnesota and even parts of North Dakota are "Yankeedom"? Ontario linked to northern Texas as part of the "Midlands"? New Orleans is "New France"?

Utterly bizzare.

If you want my very sincere opinion on that second map, here it is, from the last time someone yet again (seriously) brought it up:

Originally Posted by lio45

Aaaaarrggghh, not that map again!

I dream that the forum software will get updated someday so that every time anyone ever tries to post that map again, it permanently deletes their account and maybe even erases their hard drive.

NYC not in Yankeeland??
Ottawa and Texas Panhandle together??
Quebec and Louisiana??

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's clearly more to it than that though. There's a big difference between Bellingham and Nanaimo as well.

More US-type food which is mostly Southern in origin, more Mexican food, and somehow even less appealing fast food. I get the impression that at home Americans tend to consume more processed food as a whole. This isn't true everywhere but the exceptions are rarer and more upmarket south of the border. I suspect you'd get different answers in "have you ever consumed cheese or a whole chicken that came out of can?" type polls.

Is fresh seafood more popular in BC than in Washington State?

Also, it's interesting that in the US, Southern and Tex-Mex influences spread pretty far from their source region -- eg. in small towns in say the PNW or New England you can still have Tex-Mex, southern food like BBQ, grits etc. Canada does have things spreading far from their source region -- you'll find poutine, Quebecois in origin, in BC or Nanaimo bars in Ontario etc. but I don't think we have as much large elements of regional cuisine spreading cross-country like the American equivalents.

Is the Asian food influence much stronger in Canada as well? I've noticed big city Canadians from at least places like Toronto and Vancouver more familiar with things like dim sum than Americans from similarly big cities etc. Sushi is probably popular anywhere in Canada or the US these days, even in the smallest towns.

Maybe also things like pierogies reflect (western) Canadian demographics (eg. Ukrainian and other Eastern European) but again they haven't really spread cross-country the way say Tex-Mex style tacos have.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you want my very sincere opinion on that second map, here it is, from the last time someone yet again (seriously) brought it up:

I apologize for bringing it up knowing how unpopular it is among the forums, and it's probably beating a dead horse. I myself don't agree with it either, but I wonder if it or its popularity is partly responsible for convincing people that Canadian regions are just extensions of US regions.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I don't think I've seen many Canadians say they agree with the maps.

Well, I don't mind transborder regions (lumping SW Manitoba with Iowa under the "Breadbasket" name, lumping Southern Alberta with Montana and Wyoming as "Ranch land / Foothills", lumping the Lower Mainland of BC with the PNW as "Cascadia", etc.) as long as they make sense. But some of these maps are just plain crazy.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I apologize for bringing it up knowing how unpopular it is among the forums, and it's probably beating a dead horse. I myself don't agree with it either, but I wonder if it or its popularity is partly responsible for convincing people that Canadian regions are just extensions of US regions.

I made sure I had the keyword "seriously" in there. You kinda did the opposite actually: you brought it up knowing already how unpopular it is, you didn't bring it up "hey guys, look at what I just found, what a great map, now that I discovered it I wanted to share it with you!"

So don't worry

[Docere]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Not meaning to veer the thread down a course that has been run countless times before, but those maps are just bizarre.

Michigan, Minnesota and even parts of North Dakota are "Yankeedom"? Ontario linked to northern Texas as part of the "Midlands"? New Orleans is "New France"?

Utterly bizzare.

Michigan being "Yankee" in the US context makes sense given the western migration paths. Michigan is the most "Yankee" state of the Midwest culturally (as its settlers came from New England/western New York).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Utterly bizzare.

Your English is normally flawless, which is why I'm taking a few seconds to point out it's spelled 'bizarre'. (I have no merit knowing how to spell the word, given that it's the most basic French word that means "weird".)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Well, I don't mind transborder regions (lumping SW Manitoba with Iowa under the "Breadbasket" name, lumping Southern Alberta with Montana and Wyoming as "Ranch land / Foothills", lumping the Lower Mainland of BC with the PNW as "Cascadia", etc.) as long as they make sense. But some of these maps are just plain crazy.

The second map labels these things "rival regional cultures" though. Southern Manitoba and Iowa are united in trying to aggressively spread a united Midlands breakbasket-style culture around North America?

Seems like the premise for a really bad movie or video game, and not super useful in terms of understanding the real continent of North America.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

In all fairness, I must congratulate the creator of this one for successfully having Quebec as "Quebec" and Louisiana as part of "Dixie". Fail that first test and the map would instantly go to the shredder (if it were paper) without me even needing to take a look at the rest of it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

The second map labels these things "rival regional cultures" though. Southern Manitoba and Iowa are united in trying to aggressively spread a united Midlands breakbasket-style culture around North America?

Seems like the premise for a really bad movie or video game, and not super useful in terms of understanding the real continent of North America.

Agree, that premise is ridiculous, but there's still common cultural traits to be found.

For example, you can expect people in "Breadbasket" to own old pickup trucks, eat calorie-rich food, dress unsophisticatedly, and maybe own guns, while you can expect people in "Cascadia" to drive hybrid or electric Toyotas, sip $5 lattes, walk to work, and carry an umbrella.

[esquire]

^ LOL at "Empty Quarter". Just a giant, gray godforsaken void staring into the wonder that is Ecotopia

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Agree, that premise is ridiculous, but there's still common cultural traits to be found.

For example, you can expect people in "Breadbasket" to own old pickup trucks, eat calorie-rich food, dress unsophisticatedly, and maybe own guns, while you can expect people in "Cascadia" to drive hybrid or electric Toyotas, sip $5 lattes, walk to work, and carry an umbrella.

I would counter that, particularly in the US, there are more cultural affinities between areas of similar economic development. The wealthy metropolitan areas have converged culturally (along with some other places like small college towns) while the rest of the country became culturally polarized in the opposite direction. This phenomenon is much more significant than the difference between, say, Oregon and Idaho.

You will find the pickup truck guy in just about any rural place in the US (e.g. a 1 hour drive out of San Francisco or Seattle, depending on traffic), and the latte sipper in any wealthy area (Boston, NYC, DC, Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, ...).

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your English is normally flawless, which is why I'm taking a few seconds to point out it's spelled 'bizarre'. (I have no merit knowing how to spell the word, given that it's the most basic French word that means "weird".)

I did that on purpose.

No I didn't.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ LOL at "Empty Quarter". Just a giant, gray godforsaken void staring into the wonder that is Ecotopia

Also amusing/vexing from a Calgary/Edmonton point of view is the fact that Rural Eastern Saskatchewan has, unlike them, the privilege of being in a non-Empty region.

Take an Eastern Skatchin' resident away from his farm, drop him in downtown Calgary, and he'll exclaim "huh, been a while since I last ventured into the Empty Quarter!"

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Docere

Michigan being "Yankee" in the US context makes sense given the western migration paths. Michigan is the most "Yankee" state of the Midwest culturally (as its settlers came from New England/western New York).

Historically it might make some sense, though all of the western states were settled by New Englanders (along with the immigrant English, Scots, Scandinavians, Germans etc.). And even so, western New York isn't New England; it's midwest.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by lio45

Also amusing/vexing from a Calgary/Edmonton point of view is the fact that Rural Eastern Saskatchewan has, unlike them, the privilege of being in a non-Empty region.

Take an Eastern Skatchin' resident away from his farm, drop him in downtown Calgary, and he'll exclaim "huh, been a while since I last ventured into the Empty Quarter!"

I love the cachet of Calgary being the largest settlement in the Cdn part of the Empty Quarter.

Given the vacancy rate in the DT office towers, I expect that Calgary will quickly morph into the home of the Canadian "Mad Max". I can just picture this driving down Deerfoot any day now!


Also, there is no way that anyone who has been in Northern Minnie or Northern Ontario would lump them into the bread basket. None at all!

[Loco101]

Searchmont ski resort near Sault Ste. Marie, ON used to market itself as "The Rocky Mountains of the Midwest."

They get a lot of American customers so it was an obvious attempt to advertise to them. But it sounded so strange for someone who lives in Northern Ontario. They don't use that slogan today.

Searchmont is the best resort within a day's drive for anybody who lives in Michigan as I believe it is much higher than any hill/mountain in Michigan and gets the most snow of anywhere in Ontario as it's close to Lake Superior.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Also, there is no way that anyone who has been in Northern Minnie or Northern Ontario would lump them into the bread basket. None at all!

I was also going to point out that I don't think the Cree of Northern Quebec are much more sophisticated than the Cree of the Empty Quarter... they should probably all be lumped together.

The purple of "Quebec, culturally, in practice" should be limited to Southern Quebec. (I mean, "Southern" in the greater sense, i.e. including of course Lac St-Jean/Saguenay/Abitibi, but excluding the North.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Also, there is no way that anyone who has been in Northern Minnie or Northern Ontario would lump them into the bread basket. None at all!

I just noticed "Breadbasket" extends right to your home neck of the woods, the upper Ottawa River Valley / Quebec-Ontario border in Temiscaming! I agree it's nonsense.

[Loco101]

That map it quite ridiculous. I live in a mining belt, the Abitibi gold belt that goes from about Wawa, ON to Chapleau, to Timmins, Kirkland Lake, to Rouyn-Noranda, QC just past Val-d'Or, QC. Other than provincial differences and official language differences (yet we have lots of francophones) we are quite similar between Wawa and Val-d'Or. The boreal forest and climate also unite us.