St. Petersburg, Florida | New Rays stadium

[blazertke]

unfortunately, its not going to happen. the financials involved are too unrealistic.

hey, but rays announced their going to spend 6 to 8 million more this next year to field a team! which means they'll be able to add one overated veteran past the pinnicle of his career to the worst team in baseball. yahoo, maybe they'll win 70 next year

[John F]

What's coming into question is the redevelopment of the Tropicana Field property and parking lots. That's public land and how it's developed or sold off means a lot of different things...

People are looking at it like they are selling the land for a quick dime and yet aren't getting the most out of the deal (money wise or development wise).

[Jasonhouse]

Damn right they're not. This deal is a much bigger corporate welfare scam than the original Dome ever was.

[John F]

New Rays tax? Depends on how you define it

The no-new-tax pledge may be crucial in getting the issue passed. But it's debatable.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN and NICOLE HUTCHESON, Times Staff Writers
Published November 30, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - On one point, the Tampa Bay Rays couldn't more clear. The team's proposal to build a $450-million waterfront stadium calls for no new taxes.

The pledge will be critical toward winning the approval of St. Petersburg voters in time for a possible referendum next November.

But is it true?

"As my friend Bill Clinton might say, it depends on what the definition of 'it' is," St. Petersburg City Council member Bill Foster said Thursday, the day after the team formally unveiled its plans.

Put another way, the Rays statement is all about perspective - and context.

The Rays financing plan for a 34,000-seat stadium at the Al Lang Field site primarily comes from three sources: the team's future rent payments to the city, a state sales tax subsidy and the sale and redevelopment of Tropicana Field and the adjacent parking lots.

In at least two of the cases, and possibly all three, public resources and public money would be involved.

But new taxes? Technically, no.

The Rays said they haven't finalized all the details, but under the latest scenario, the largest chunk of the stadium budget, $250-million to $300-million, would come from the publicly owned Tropicana site.

Some would come from the outright sale of the land to a private developer.

The other portion would come as the result of the site's redevelopment. City and county property taxes from the Tropicana site would be redirected under a city program already in place into downtown capital projects - in this case, the new stadium.

The money, of course, is not the team's to spend. But without the Rays moving to the waterfront, there would be no money for the city or county or any other taxing authority to spend, either.

In that regard it's not a new tax, but rather the sale of a city asset, Foster and others said Thursday. The public return would be two new economic engines that could pump millions of new dollars into the local economy.

"You could make an argument that, yeah, it's taxpayers' money, but we're creating something that wasn't there before, and when the loans are paid off, you have a redeveloped site and a new stadium," said City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett.

Plus, other government agencies, including the Pinellas school system, would stand to directly benefit from the Tropicana redevelopment, said City Council member Jeff Danner.

"We won't collect ad valorem property taxes for the city, but the school board, PSTA and juvenile welfare and other agencies will collect their taxes," he said. "Those entities will benefit from extending the tax base on the 80-acre site where currently no one is getting any tax base."

State money squishy

The Rays say they will ask the state Legislature to provide $60-million spread out over 30 years in the form of a sales tax subsidy.

The revenue stream could translate into about $30-million in cash for construction costs if the team asked the city to issue bonds.

The sales tax and subsidy program themselves are hardly new, but giving that money to the Rays means it could not be spent somewhere else. Roads. Education. Social services.

"Things are tight, and they're going to be getting tighter," state Rep. Tom Anderson, R-Dunedin, said when he first heard of the proposal. "I would think it would be a pretty hard sell."

And even the Rays' contribution would fall, at least in part, on the back of taxpayers.

The Rays propose to increase their yearly rent payments to the city from about $1-million to about $10-million. The city would then issue government bonds, with the rent as the pledged revenue, to make up the team's contribution.

The Rays would do it that way rather than by making a lump sum payment to make best use of Major League Baseball's revenue-sharing rules.

Rays senior vice president Michael Kalt, the team's point person on stadium negotiations, said the Rays plans would help, not hurt, the local taxpayer.

"If you are a taxpayer in the city of St. Petersburg or Pinellas County and you pay $1 in taxes currently, your taxes aren't going to go to $1.05 because of this project and that dollar's going to go to the exact same thing the dollar's always been going to," he said.

The stakes are high, a St. Petersburg Times poll of 616 city voters last week found.

Fifty-seven percent of people surveyed would favor plans to build a new stadium if no city tax dollars were used. If St. Petersburg tax dollars were part of the equation, 69 percent said they would oppose the plan.

The question now becomes: What exactly do voters consider tax dollars?

"We're not looking to subsidize anything here," said Pinellas County Commissioner Ronnie Duncan. "But again, it's so early and there are so many unanswered questions, it's hard to make a decision."

Aaron Sharockman can be reached at asharockman@sptimes.com or (727) 892-2273. Times staff writer Marc Topkin contributed to this report.

FAST FACTS

To view the plans

After keeping quiet for more than a year, the Tampa Bay Rays are putting out plenty of information about their proposed stadium and downtown redevelopment project. The team created a Web site, www.majorleaguedowntown.com, that includes renderings of the project , a virtual tour of the stadium, a time line, a list of public meetings, a section on frequently asked questions and a link for e-mail updates. And for anyone who wants to see the renderings in person (or doesn't have access to the Web), they will be on display at the Tropicana Field rotunda today and Monday-Wednesday, 9 a.m.-6 p.m. To receive stadium info by mail, call 727-342-5777.

[John F]

Rays' land request for stadium may be hard to fill

Permits to dredge, alter sea grass beds take time.



By CRAIG PITTMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 1, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG -- The Tampa Bay Rays' plans for a waterfront ballpark will face a major environmental hurdle because of regulations designed to protect the bay.

Stadium plans call for dumping fill dirt over six-tenths of an acre of Tampa Bay to create about 26,000 square feet of new land, the rough equivalent of three house lots.

The Rays then want the city to reroute Bayshore Drive across the new land, making the road bow out into the bay where it now bends in next to the stadium site, currently occupied by Al Lang Field.

Planners and biologists familiar with Tampa Bay predict that getting state and federal permits to fill in that much of the bay -- and in a spot that state records show contains several patches of sea grass beds vital to the health of the bay -- could be more difficult than the Rays expect.

"There's a lot of things lined up there that are going to make it difficult," predicted Suzanne Cooper of the Agency on Bay Management, an arm of the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council. "They've got a lot of hurdles."

Not only are such dredge-and-fill projects rarely requested, but for the past 30 years that area has been part of a state aquatic preserve, said Holly Greening, chief scientist of the Tampa Bay Estuary Program.

The preserve status legally protects its "aesthetic, biological and scientific values" for "the enjoyment of future generations."

But without filling in the bay and relocating the road, "you're just out of room" for the stadium on that particular site, said Joseph Spear, the principal architect with HOK Sport, which designed the proposed new stadium.

Under the current alignment, Spear said, the distance between home plate and the right field fence would be a mere 270 feet -- more suited to Little League than the majors.

"The site is very tight," agreed Michael Kalt, the Rays' project manager. "It would be very difficult to accommodate a major league field on that site."

Many of Florida's waterfront developments were built using just such dredge-and-fill techniques -- Miami Beach, for instance.

But by the 1960s the consequences of turning water into land were becoming starkly apparent. When the owner of a South Pasadena mobile home park proposed filling in nearly 12 acres of Boca Ciega Bay to expand his property, more than 100 opponents turned out at a public hearing to complain that previous dredging projects had turned the bay muddy and foul, producing a stench at low tide.

In 1967, in what became a landmark decision, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers turned down the permit application because of the environmental consequences, putting public interest ahead of private profit. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately upheld that decision.

These days dredge-and-fill projects in open water are fairly rare, Cooper and Greening said, and the permitting process can drag on.

Sea grass quandary

For instance, in August 2001 the Florida Department of Transportation sought a permit to dredge and fill part of Tampa Bay to expand the Courtney Campbell Parkway. The permit was approved 15 months later.

Complicating that permitting process, DOT officials said, was that the fill displaced sea grass beds. The head of the corps' regulatory division in Florida, David Hobbie, said that's always going to slow things down.

"Any time you get sea grass beds, that always gets a little stickier," Hobbie said. Normally in such cases, sea grass beds must be transplanted or replaced in some way.

He also noted that the presence of manatees, an endangered species, could add another complication to the permitting. Since no docks are being proposed, however, the corps is unlikely to reject the permit application because of that.

Hobbie and the head of the corps' office in Tampa, Chuck Schnepel, said no one from the Rays or its consultant, Nebraska-based HDR, has contacted federal regulators about getting the dredge-and-fill permits. State Department of Environmental Protection officials said they, too, have not been contacted by the Rays or HDR.

To longtime environmental consultant and sea grass expert Roy "Robin" Lewis, the Rays need to get moving fast on figuring out how they will convince the state and federal regulators that they can make up for the loss of sea grasses in that area, because that's likely to be the key.

"If there are proposed sea grass impacts," Lewis wrote in an e-mail to the St. Petersburg Times, "whomever is handling the permitting had better get the process started NOW."

The Rays are confident that the permitting issues, "while certainly a challenge, are not by any means insurmountable," Kalt said. He defended the team's prediction that all the permits could be obtained by October, with ground-breaking in May 2009, as "manageable."

When Cooper of the Agency on Bay Management heard that schedule, though, she chuckled and said, "Well, if you're going to dream, dream big."

Times staff writer Aaron Sharockman and researcher Angie Drobnic Holan contributed to this report.

[John F]

Lot of curve balls could derail Rays

Any number of factors could stall a new stadium.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 2, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - The Tampa Bay Rays hope to break ground on a downtown waterfront stadium in 500 days.

But getting there will test the limits of government and the patience of people.

Rays officials insist they can make their schedule. Others are uncertain if the stadium ever will be built.

Here's why. Ahead of a planned citywide referendum next November, the Rays need to - in no particular order:

-Convince Mayor Rick Baker and other city leaders that a new stadium is a good idea.

-Receive a $60-million pledge from the cash-strapped state Legislature.

-Get the city and Pinellas County to amend the master plan for St. Petersburg's downtown.

-Generate enough interest in Tropicana Field to fetch at least $100-million from the sale of it.

-Create a workable traffic plan.

-Navigate several state and federal regulatory agencies.

-Work out a plan to pay off the city's existing debt at Tropicana Field.

One misstep could doom the project, which the Rays say would be worth more than $1-billion.

And even if they succeed, the Rays must still get city voters to approve.

"There are a thousand moving pieces to this, and they're not even on Step One in my book," said City Council member Bill Foster.

Rays senior vice president Michael Kalt, the point person on the stadium project, acknowledges that many details still need to be worked out. But, he said, that work could not begin before the team went public with its plans on Wednesday.

Now that it has, a more formal and inclusive process can begin, Kalt said.

"We are under no illusion that this will be easy," he said. "But we are very confident that this project will come together."

Political hurdles

The Rays unveiled plans last week to construct a 34,000-seat, $450-million open-air stadium on the current site of Al Lang Field.

The team faces obstacles no matter the source of the money to pay for it.

City and county governments tired of tightening their belts likely will face even larger budget shortfalls next year and beyond, said Pinellas County Commissioner Susan Latvala.

It doesn't make sense to begin to consider the Rays' plan until next spring, when a state tax reform commission makes its recommendations for property tax cuts, she said.

"If some of these proposals are actually passed and local taxes are dramatically decreased, we will only be paying for essential services such as the operation of the jail," Latvala said. "We won't even have health and human services money."

And if the Rays seek to benefit from tax increment financing - a program that would redirect city and county tax dollars from a redeveloped Tropicana Field into downtown capital projects - Latvala says there would be problems, too.

"Get in line," she said. "Everybody would like to do that."

Across the country, public sentiment is turning against taxpayer financing of sports stadiums. Just last year, residents of Seattle and Sacramento opposed publicly funded basketball arenas.

"I've got no money to put in a project," Mayor Baker said.

Even though the Rays stress that they aren't asking for new taxes to support their plan, City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett said it's naive to think that the city won't be asked to contribute in some way.

"To think we're not going to have to participate one way or another, that's wishful thinking," Bennett said. "This ... has a framework that you can begin putting it all together and hopefully it will not prove to be a hardship to the city."

The team also is seeking $60-million from the state Legislature and millions more from the sale of the publicly owned Tropicana site.

"At the state level, we have some financial challenges, but I also know that we need to continue to find ways to stimulate this great economy," said Gov. Charlie Crist, a stadium proponent.

Labyrinth of approvals

Money is not the only hurdle. And it may not even prove the most significant.

The plans for the new stadium call for dumping fill dirt in six-tenths of an acre of Tampa Bay to create new land. Then the city would re-route Bayshore Drive across the new land.

Without filling in the bay, architects say the stadium won't fit under the proposed plans. But in order to do it, the team must first traverse a labyrinth of state and federal agencies.

And that's just one layer of government needed to make the Rays' proposal a reality.

The city and county - and possibly the state - would have to sign off on the potential redevelopment of the 85-acre Tropicana site.

And the Federal Aviation Administration would have to approve plans for a new ballpark, since the site is so close to Albert Whitted Airport.

The Rays also have to win over Baker, a powerful potential ally who has yet to commit either way on the project.

Baker was asked by the Rays to speak at last week's unveiling, but declined. The mayor said he needs to see the team's final proposal before making up his mind.

His support is critical to any project getting off the ground.

"We're going to be cautious until we get more details," said Baker, who said he likes the idea of playing baseball overlooking the waterfront. But he also says he likes watching games at Tropicana Field.

Then there's the matter of St. Petersburg voters.

Voters never got the chance to decide whether to build Tropicana, but they will get the final say on plans for a waterfront ballpark because of extra waterfront protections in the City Charter.

They will be asked - likely next November - to approve a long-term lease for the Rays, not a financing plan. But the Rays, the city and everyone else knows the vote will be a referendum on the project, not a lease.

A St. Petersburg Times survey of 616 registered city voters found both pockets of support and opposition for the plan. Fifty-seven percent of voters surveyed said they would favor plans to build a stadium if no city tax dollars were used. But if St. Petersburg tax dollars were part of the equation, 69 percent said they would oppose the plan.

"The biggest piece to all of this, and the one that's being ignored today, is the vote of the residents of St. Petersburg," Foster said.

"Assuming the stars line up at the end of the day, and it comes down to a referendum, it doesn't matter what the people of Clearwater or Tampa think," Foster said. "It's not about Tampa Bay at that point. It's about the residents of the city of St. Pete."

Times staff writers Nicole Hutcheson and Craig Pittman contributed to this report.



Obstacles facing the Rays

Tax cuts from the state: The Rays already benefit from a $60-million tax break courtesy of the state Legislature. Asking for a second one may not go over well.

Making it fit: The stadium architect says the Al Lang Field site is the smallest ever contemplated for a modern major league stadium. Can a major league facility fit on 10 acres?

Dredge and fill: The Rays reportedly want to dredge and fill a small portion of the water next to the stadium.

Parking:The Rays say there are 12,000 parking spaces within a 15-minute walk of Al Lang Field. The city only controls 5,400. If the stadium is ever built, where will the fans park? What about people coming downtown for something other than baseball?

$$$$ for the Trop: The team is planning to use the proceeds of the sale of Tropicana Field to pay for a large portion of the new stadium. How much is the Trop worth? Would the city and county want a cut?

It's hot in the summer: The retractable shade-sail roof could cut up to 10 degrees off the temperature inside the stadium, the team says. Is that possible?

City voters: Perhaps the most difficult hurdle of all. The Rays want a referendum next November.

[tampamobster21]

This is amazing. I can not believe that they are going to build a stadium with the economy the way it is.

[John F]

Originally Posted by tampamobster21

This is amazing. I can not believe that they are going to build a stadium with the economy the way it is.

Nothing guarantees that it will happen. The economy has gotten worse since the November rumors started swirling.

And part of funding for this ballpark hedges it's bets on what money they coudl get for the 70+ acres of PUBLIC land in the middle of downtown. Real estate development is not a sure thing right now and it could potentially be a billion dollar loss of revenue by underselling the property during this downcycle.

[John F]

City sets stadium timetable

A developer for the Tropicana Field site would be picked May 1.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 8, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG -- The city hopes to select a developer for Tropicana Field by May 1 and approve a fall stadium referendum a month later, according to an aggressive and detailed timetable released by the city on Friday.

The schedule calls for the city to begin soliciting proposals from developers for the Trop site next month, with responses due March 18.

The city timeline lays out the path toward a possible November referendum on the Rays' proposal to construct a $450-million waterfront stadium. But it does not guarantee it, city officials insisted Friday.

The project could be halted or postponed at any point, officials said. And the city has not committed to supporting the project.

City Council chairman Jamie Bennett said Friday he believes the city's timeline is tight, but achievable.

"We don't have much of a choice," Bennett said. The city "is working with the time frame the Rays gave us."

The Rays announced late last month a proposal to build a new 34,000-seat stadium on the current site of Al Lang Field, which largely would be paid for by the simultaneous redevelopment of the publicly owned Tropicana site. The plan was first revealed by the St. Petersburg Times' Web site, tampabay.com.

The team says that between the sale of the 85-acre Trop site, and the city and county property taxes generated from its redevelopment, more than $250-million could be generated for the construction of a new stadium.

The response from developers will help determine if that's realistic.

City officials will solicit developers' bids in the form of a request for proposals, or RFP.

City senior development administrator Rick Mussett said the request will be written broadly to attract the most ideas.

One developer could imagine a residential community. Another could envision a International Plaza-type mall.

The Rays already have lined up one developer, Hines Interests of Houston, which may bid on the site. But Bennett said he believes other national developers may be interested as well.

The first public discussion will come Jan. 10, during a City Council work session.

The RFP is scheduled to be released eight days later.

"I'm very hopeful that we'll be able to get all the information that the citizens of St. Pete will need to make a proper decision," Bennett said. "There's some very exciting things about this process. But we have to make sure people have ample opportunity to study and examine the issues -- good and bad."

[John F]

And of course, the local yokels get a chance to come off like absolute moronic idiots in their opposition to the plan. I have no problem with those who oppose the new stadium. I do have a problemw ith those who oppose the new stadium and make a fool out of all locals because of it:

Rays hear ideas for the Trop

The team hosts 331 residents intent on discussing the site's future.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published January 10, 2008

ST. PETERSBURG -- In right field, on the spongy fake grass, beneath an advertisement for Pepsi and another for Budweiser, an eclectic mix of 331 residents plotted a potential future for Tropicana Field on Wednesday.

The discussion was robust. Passionate, but not hostile.

The ideas were endless.

Unanimity, however, was not to be found.

"It's nice that they actually asked us what we thought," said Janet Dunne, a downtown resident who supports growth -- in moderation.

In groups of 10, the residents were armed with markers and asked to draw the future of the 86 acres along First Avenue S and 16th Street.

The groups mixed politicians and developers, lawyers and environmental activists. Two people protested outside the Trop.

One woman protested inside.

Joan Martin, a 68-year-old St. Petersburg resident, created a necklace in yellow that said "Save the Dome." She held a pink sign in her hand to match.

She was seated at the same table as Craig Sher, the president of the Sembler Co. and one of the people interested in developing the Tampa Bay Rays' current home.

As Sher talked about the possibilities for the site -- from retail to office to affordable housing -- Martin recalled an event at the domed stadium that drew exercise guru Richard Simmons.

"It was packed," she said. "Where would we go if the dome was gone?"

Sher talked about the possibility of office space.

"Dime a dozen," Martin chimed in.

Someone else talked about housing.

"Dime a dozen," she said again.

At one point, Martin stood on her seat and waved her sign.

For the most part, people were cautious about replacing Tropicana Field, which opened in 1990. But many were at least open to the idea.

The Rays want to build a $450-million stadium on the site of Al Lang Field. To pay for it, they propose redeveloping Tropicana Field and its adjacent parking lots. The team also would contribute $150-million to construction through yearly lease payments.

"This is a suburban baseball park in an urban area," former City Council member Jay Lasita told his group seated at Table 30. "The whole proposition, the Rays' proposition, deserves a reasonable discussion. Not just a gut reaction."

"I'm a baseball fan, but I like the idea of a dome," Cory Calvin said to a group at a table nearby.

Gail Eggeman, a former city employee who lives just near BayWalk in downtown St. Petersburg, said she was excited at the prospect of redeveloping the Tropicana Field site, but she would like it better if the Rays relocated closer to the Gandy Bridge area.

"They lit up my mind about what could happen if there was no baseball," Eggeman said.

During their introductory remarks, both Mayor Rick Baker and City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett took great pains to make clear that they have not endorsed or agreed to any of the Rays' requests.

The Rays say they haven't agreed to anything, either. They believe their plan is feasible, team president Matt Silverman said. But they also admit it may not work.

On Wednesday, team and city officials began their search for answers. Council members will decide on Jan. 17 whether to solicit developer proposals for the Tropicana Field site.

"This is an information gathering process," Baker said. "The city and I have not committed to either opposing this project or supporting this project. I believe all of our jobs is to gather as much information as we can."

Times staff writer Stephanie Garry contributed to this report.



Fast facts: Tropicana Field's future
People were asked to rank five potential land uses for the Tropicana site, and another five design principles for the redevelopment. Among land use ideas, residential and retail were chosen as favorites. The top two design principles: pedestrian friendly and mid-rised, mixed use.

[John F]

All right, this is the most recent story on teh issue. There were a few others but I thought I had flooded the general Development forum enough tonight :p This catchs the news up on the Rays ballpark proposal...

I'd include the photo from the story but it looked like a shuffleboard rally. I'll leave it at that.

Rays park hearing draws a full house

The stadium's financing, potential for jobs were on the minds of more than 200 people.

By Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer
Published February 22, 2008

ST. PETERSBURG - Opponents and supporters unleashed their first impressions of the Tampa Bay Rays' $1-billion stadium and redevelopment plan to the City Council on Thursday, during a sometimes fiery and sometimes light-hearted debate that is likely only to intensify.

At least 200 people converged on City Hall for the first of three public hearings to discuss the Rays' complicated downtown megadevelopment.

Proponents came dressed in white.

Opponents wore red.

The hearing took on all the drama of an all-out election fight, and the meeting dragged well into the night.

Rays officials provided free white T-shirts and buttons to their supporters, including many local union tradesmen working on the new All Children's Hospital in St. Petersburg.

Opponents, who came in different shades of red, argued that the T-shirt giveaway may violate state election laws.

The groups jockeyed for position in speaking order and even for seats in the council chamber. The first speaker, Caesar Civitella, was at City Hall shortly after 1 p.m. for the 6:30 p.m. meeting.

"When the Rays decided to move (their spring training) to Port Charlotte, they turned their back on the city of St. Petersburg," said Civitella, when he finally got his say.

Rays president Matt Silverman and a handful of team officials and supporters spent the night tucked into one of the city's first-floor meeting rooms. Opponents waited in another meeting room next door.

The size of the turnout was expected. The parity among the groups may have been a surprise.

Among the speakers to the council, opponents outnumbered supporters more than 2-to-1. Many lived in Bayfront Tower, a condominium across the street from Al Lang Field.

But nearly 100 local union workers stood on the steps of City Hall in support of the Rays.

Robert Beann, a 49-year-old St. Petersburg plumber, addressed the City Council for the first time in his life on Thursday. With worn-through jeans and an unshaven face, Beann stood at the microphone and asked council members to support the project.

"I don't live on Beach Drive," he said. "I make my living doing construction. If you build the park, you put people to work. I'm worried about feeding my family."

Council members listened to the speakers, but said little themselves. The council will be asked in June whether or not to schedule a citywide referendum.

Mayor Rick Baker, who has been noticeably absent from the stadium discussion, did not attend Thursday's hearing. Baker said earlier in the day that he had a scheduling conflict.

Opponents attacked several aspects of the plan, from the secrecy of the negotiations between the city and the team last year, to the environmental and traffic impacts of a new stadium at Al Lang Field. They also questioned the proposed financing plan, which relies heavily on the development of the publicly owned Tropicana Field site.

"I don't like being taken advantage of by the team's owners," said Robert Bedford, a city resident and professor at the University of South Florida. "This proposal is all about the Rays' owner increasing the value of their franchise."

The last speaker, number 109, brought up the finances again. Community activist Karl Nurse wanted the city to be sure it got the best possible deal.

"We can't afford to guess wrong on this," Nurse said.

With that, the crowd thinned, the cleaning crews retook the halls and life went back to normal at City Hall.

Fast facts

Voice your opinion

The next public hearings on the Rays' redevelopment plans are scheduled for April 10 and May 22.

[Dale]

Re: skepticism, billions and billions of dollars worth of stadia are u/c in the US right now, billions of dollars worth in NYC alone.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Dale

Re: skepticism, billions and billions of dollars worth of stadia are u/c in the US right now, billions of dollars worth in NYC alone.

Where the hell you been, Dale? I ahven't see you around much.

As for the stadiums under construction elsewhere: Outside of NYC -- where else are they going up? The financing was secured before the economy went to hell. And to compared developments, this would be more like redeveloping Willets Point in Flushing, New York... But the comparison ends there. The money being thrown around by the local government -- teh dollar amounts, the plans, makes it look like thsi is goign to be a robbery of public lands. Someoen si goign to get it on teh cheap.

My skepticicsm isn't about getting money for the ballpark. It's for the value fo the land that Tropicana Field and it's parking lot shave. St. Petersburg is a residential boom town and developing that land would be better in better economic times to get max return. Citifield in Flushing is being built on the Shea Stadium parking lot. new Yankee Stadium is being errected on public land as well.

How many new stadiums are attached to major redevelopment opportunities? I mean, the new Giants/Jets stadium doesn't compare -- the swamps of Jersey aren't downtown...

[John F]

• Video Link

[John F]

Three bids on Trop

UPDATE (11 a.m.) -- Kitty just asked if Tropicana Field will be demolished or sold before a potential November referendum on the Rays' stadium plan. The answer is no. The city has made it clear to developers that the sale of the land will NOT happen, unless the Rays' stadium proposal is approved by voters in November. If anyone else has questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.

UPDATE (10:55 a.m.) -- It will be a few hours, the city says, before we know more about the three bids. City officials are just now beginning to sort through the 1/2-inch thick documents. The city says it hopes to make summaries of each bid available this afternoon, and the whole document available by the end of the day.

Here's what we know about the three developers:

Hines --- The group the Tampa Bay Rays have been working with, Hines' bid was all but assured months ago. They're calling their proposal WestEnd St. Pete. The publicly known concept includes 1-million square feet of retail space (the size approx. of International Plaza) and about 900 homes.

Archstone-Madison -- A partnership between Archstone Smith and Madison Marquetee, two D.C.-area companies. We told you on Sunday they may be a likely bidder. Their project is called EcoVerde.

Williams Quater -- The company we know the least about. In fact, we couldn't find them in a quick Google search. But they are partnering with DeBartolo Holdings, a Tampa company known for retail developments.

City officials say all of the bids were received this morning. Both city and Rays officials sounded pleased with the response from the development community. We'll update this post later when we know more about the bids.

UPDATE (10:18 a.m.) -- Three bids: Williams Quarter (teaming with DeBartolo Holdings and other developers); Archstone-Madison; Hines.

UPDATE (10:16 a.m.) -- City economic development director Dave Goodwin just walked in. He's carrying three packets of information. Looks like three bids.

UPDATE (10:12 a.m.) --- Rays officials Michael Kalt, Melanie Lenz and Robbie Artz just walked in. We're still waiting on the city.

ST. PETERSBURG -- We're here on the eighth floor of the city's downtown Municipal Services Building, waiting for city officials to unveil the bids for the possible redevelopment of Tropicana Field. It's mainly an affair for the media, though former City Council member Kathleen Ford is seated in the back row. (Ford, you might remember, argued earlier this month that the bidding process should be stopped because she believed the developer the Tampa Bay Rays are working with, Hines, had an unfair advantage.)

It's hard to know what to expect. Quietly, city officials are hoping for three bids to redevelop the 86-acre site. To put that in some perspective, a 110-acre Washington D.C. site drew seven initial bids last fall.

What'll be more interesting is the price that developers are offering. The money generated by the possible redevelopment is critical to the Rays' $450-million stadium proposal. We should have some information within the half hour. Details of the proposal, however, may not be available until this afternoon, city officials say.

[John F]

No renderings are public so far as I know besides teh hines urban-Suburbia concepts that are posted on the first page.

[John F]

The proposals are online in PDF format. I am still going thorugh them as they are in depth -- or at least the one I am looking at now.

[John F]

Archstone-Williams proposal: Ecoverde

Williams Quarter

Hines

All three proposals seem to present the land as a chance to have greenspace. The Hines vision is mostly presented on the first page here and not in their PDF. Teh Williams Quarter proposal looks like an Apartment complex at best. Archstone goes into depth about everything...

[John F]

There is a slate of arrticles that have apepared over the last few months about the redevelopment adn the stadium itself but there is also a lot of neighborhood hostility and disinformation that I am seeing right now with the stadiuma nd knee-jerk anti-reaction.

I'm not entirely pro-stadium as I don't believe in a St. Pete location for a ballpark. Never have cared. I also buy into the motto that the Rays haven't exactly proved their worth to the ara -- and earned a new ballpark.

But the disinformation from residents to stop teh stadium bothered me. I had an ex girlfriend come to me today to complain. She just moved into St. Peterburg's "Old northeat" neighborhood. She told me of an entertainment complex they were planning on sticking onto the stadium and that is when I had alarms goign off.

There's no space. And in any of these renderings I have produced, you can see the Rays plan no such thing on their new ballpark.

There are reasons to be concerned -- 16 blocks and a half billion dollar price tag seems high. The real estate market isn't exactly goign to help generate the money the team needs to be generated to finance the stadium construction. There is no parking -- specifically event related parking -- downtown.

Do residents really need to reach with regards to reasons why the stadium is bad for them?

Better yet, do I have to take an ultra-extreme stance in order to come off anti-stadium? I'm no NIMBY, that's for sure. It's more like timing how I don't se it working. I like the stadium design, it's unique... But you get into the finances and it's not the best market time to put forth a project like this.

There are legit reasosn to revolt but makign up excuses bothers me.

[John F]

I'll find teh article that goes with this soon enough but the new Rays stadium is the SECOND stadium proposed for St. Petersburg, Florida that would have had a canvas roof and would have been open air.

Behold the 1983 original concept for the MLB stadium in St. Petersburg:


(caption: Tropicana Field wasn’t always designed as a dome. This original 1983 model is what city and county leaders first thought the ballpark would look like, which is similar to what the Tampa Bay Rays are proposing now for Al Lang Field. Ultimately, city leaders abandoned the “tent” concept, saying they preferred a dome that could host other events, not just baseball. )

Well, guess again

By Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer

Published Monday, May 12, 2008 7:10 PM

Tropicana Field almost looked like this.

Outdoor seating. Tented roof. Fountains in center field.

It looks a lot like a new downtown waterfront stadium proposed by the Tampa Bay Rays.

Except the image at top, taken by St. Petersburg Times photographer Fraser Hale in early 1983, is of a model of the original Tropicana design.

A Times reporter unearthed the picture recently while researching the history of Tropicana Field.

In the distance is the old Bayfront Arena, to the right is Interstate 175.

A fabric roof stretches over a boomerang-shaped stadium, anchored to the upper deck on one end, and at the ground on the other.

The design never got past the planning stages, shelved after city leaders pressed for a multipurpose dome that could attract events other than baseball.

The Rays, who will reveal a preliminary financing plan for the $450-million waterfront ballpark at noon Thursday at Tropicana Field, say they had never seen this picture before.

"People were really impressed with it," recalled Cecil Engelbert, 81, former chairman of the Pinellas Sports Authority.

"It would have sure been attractive."

Times staff researcher Mary Mellstrom contributed to this report.