HRM Regional Plan

[someone123]

That is how the "NIMBY" phenomenon works -- nobody offers a viable solution, they just don't want the development near them.

If the problem is fixed it will be through planning regulations, not by finding a part of the city where people love highrises.

[halifaxboyns]

Yes Worldy - you are probably right. But you never know...

I think if you pair high rise development forms with a system similar to HbD (that leverages private money for public benefit) you could probably change some minds. Also, if you set some objective standards in an area that says here is what you could end up with; you can actually change some minds as well.

Personally - it makes me think about Plan It Calgary again and the workshop we did called 'Design it'. I may have mentioned it in this thread, but if you don't know what I mean here is what happened: The demographics people determined how many people and jobs were being created over the life of the new regional plan. They selected 14 different areas of the city; blew up a huge aerial photo and then got groups of people around each image. They were given the breakdown of how many new people and jobs were going to be going into their area (in 2 cases, they actually saw loss of people - I was working one of those groups).

The challenge was how do you fit all those jobs and people into that area. They were given thread to mean bus routes or improved traffic patterns, although they couldn't change the spinal road network too much. You would be surprised what they came up with. People understood that if you stacked the blocks for people - it meant highrise development. Some people put in farmers markets, wind turbines, they went all out.

Now you may not realize it; but many people in Calgary are anti-building height. It's a very common concern, especially in the densifying inner city communities. So we're fighting the same fights here...but this workshop really worked well in getting people to think, really think about the future.

So maybe something like that would be needed for doing a densification of Agricola or Quinpool? I'd certainly like to see what would come of it. I think if you engage the people and start getting them to think, they really feel a part of the process and take ownership of the fact it's 'their plan' and will actually be more willing to compromise than people might think. We certainly saw that during Plan It. But like we saw in plan it - people did allow areas for tall buildings - sometimes clustered in one or two spots, or spread out. But they did think about it...

Here are some images from the Build it workshop to show you some of the work they did! Here is the link to the full slate of images taken that day, but I've included a few selected ones from the 'design it' exercise.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

(Credit: DJ )


I'm not super proud of this skyline view... I mean maybe if the Fenwick reclad happens and tower taller than Hollis and Morris is built on the lot to the east.

Additionally, the waterfront lot next to NSP really needs something on it.

While it's true that this particular part of the skyline appears to be turbo-short, I think to be fair we must view more broadly.



Though people may be frustrated with the stagnant status of development--Halifax has the beautiful physical signature of a decently densified downtown of lower-rise buildings. Nothing is over-powering the Citadel.

We need to work toward more density.

Though the skyline picture you provided shows that this area is lacking--from the vantage point of people traveling on cruise ships, they enjoy the small-town feel around Pier 21. This foreground of small structures adds a contrast to the more distant taller buildings (such as near the Purdy Warf Towers). And this description I'm giving you isn't just my own, but of the many American tourists I've talked with. I used to work at a Tim Hortons on the waterfront. Most Americans I've met, actually, were surprised at the level of development currently standing. They pictured all of Nova Scotia to be very ..remote.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Though people may be frustrated with the stagnant status of development--Halifax has the beautiful physical signature of a decently densified downtown of lower-rise buildings. Nothing is over-powering the Citadel.

We need to work toward more density.

Though the skyline picture you provided shows that this area is lacking--from the vantage point of people traveling on cruise ships, they enjoy the small-town feel around Pier 21. This foreground of small structures adds a contrast to the more distant taller buildings (such as near the Purdy Warf Towers). And this description I'm giving you isn't just my own, but of the many American tourists I've talked with. I used to work at a Tim Hortons on the waterfront. Most Americans I've met, actually, were surprised at the level of development currently standing. They pictured all of Nova Scotia to be very ..remote.

Halifax has an interesting character and I have to say I'm so glad to see this thread seeing a lot of discussion. This is the kind of thinking and discussion we need to see more of as part of a planning exercise (sorry, I'm a planner and I really believe in discussions as a good thing).

Personally - I am torn on the idea of taller buildings and downtown. I think there are areas where you can have some and still get density and intensification but still balance that with preservation of the old character and charm and the citadell. I thought about this on my walk last night and I've come to the personally conclusion that if it's not in a viewplane, then what does it matter if the height really big? I guess it depends on how the tall building would impact other views as well - so it would depend on the idea.

But certainly Quinpool, Gottingen and Agricola are areas where there should be no height limits at all. Perhaps this may be prudent for parts of the south end around Fenwick (if it lies behind Fenwick and can't be seen - what's the problem?).

That being said - I wouldn't mind if a bunch of Vic buildings cropped up around the actual VIC because it adds more density. Density doesn't have to be a bunch of tall buildings all the time. I think HRM can balance both tall and short in the centre.

Plus - don't forget, we have a regional core, so there is Dartmouth as well. I'd say people should suggest getting rid of the brightwood viewplane so that more development of a greater height can crop up there too! They are asking for comments since that's an active project.

[someone123]

It's possible to build much higher density areas than downtown Halifax without any highrises whatsoever. I don't have very strong feelings either way, aside from the fact that I think it's bad to unnecessarily restrict the sort of development that can happen downtown.

The aerial photo above is interesting because it contains a large number of new buildings from the past decade or so. Few have been built in the "CBD" (Barrington and below from about Salter to Cogswell) but adjacent areas have seen lots of growth.

The picture is also already outdated despite being only a few years old. It's missing the Trillium, Vic, power plant, farmers' market, etc.

During the 2001-2006 census period the Spring Garden population grew by about 16%. I think we will see even more from 2006-2011 and 2011-2016. Some North End areas are also going to see a lot of population growth. This will all be very good for the city.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I love the area, but it could be wayyy better. The salter street development not proceeding was a terrible loss.

The alexander is another example of a project we don't know will happen.

I'm sure calgary has anti height folks, but even small developments take forever to be built here. Plus, the bow kind of illustrates the flexibility in calgary's system.

The surface lots kill me on south barrington. Superstore should have a parking structure and 12 story building on its parking lot.

[someone123]

Calgary mostly has more construction because it has a much stronger economy.

Not sure about the Alexander but maybe the developers are waiting for some current projects to wrap up before they proceed. It is a very similar development to the Trillium.

[-Harlington-]

Something i wouldnt mind seeing in Halifax with retail :





posted by travis007 in the proposals canada section, its in toronto.

[halifaxboyns]

That design Harlington is impressive. Add a few more floors onto it - that would be awesome all over the south end.

I agree WH - the area could be better with the Brewery proposal and Salter going forward. Sometimes you have to have faith that these things will get seen through at some point. Plus, I'm going to say something that I usually said when I was a development planner: bad development should never been used as the case to justify anything. Just because the superstore is still there now - doesn't mean it can't be modified or changed down the road. Sometimes bad decisions happen - what's going on with Polycorp is a great example of that.

There is good density being put on paper - now it's time to get it on the ground. Although there is an upside to all this development not occuring - you aren't having the wild shifts in the market like we've had out here. I mean we've gone from Cranes everywhere, to holes in the ground being filled in by the City because developers went bust. Last count, I believe was 8 projects filled in for safety reasons; nor do you have developers having to desperately slash costs on units to get them sold. We are only now starting to see a couple projects start to come back, but I'd guess at least 60% are still not where they need to be. So the picture still isn't quite as rosey as we'd like out here yet either...

My guess would be if Nova Centre gets off the ground - you'll see some projects in dt snap back to life. Maybe even before that; if the Roy and Discovery Centre go forward.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Buildings like the picture above would be great for the schmidville lots... I would like to see a mix of retail and restaurants, with a new LC for sure.

The angled skyline shot is pretty impressive and is missing the Trillium.

I think the Alexander will improve the whole Hollis and Lower Water block that its on... and definitely bring another needed influx of people into south downtown.

I think the regional plan should place value on high density hubs going outward from a fully developed downtown. This would give both the burbs and downtown a reason to exist and would create good transportation links.

IP and the Alexander would bookend our skyline so well, and if Nova Centre was built... UG would really be the most significant non-waterfront lot left.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Buildings like the picture above would be great for the schmidville lots... I would like to see a mix of retail and restaurants, with a new LC for sure.

That building is actually somewhat similar in design to the one that is being proposed for Coburg & Seymour (replacing the Needs that is next to the new Dal building), except that the one on Coburg is only 4 stories I think. I agree that buildings of this form would be great all over the south end

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

IP and the Alexander would bookend our skyline so well, and if Nova Centre was built... UG would really be the most significant non-waterfront lot left.

My worry, based on everything we see about projections for class A demand, is that realistically we are going to get only 1 (if that!) of either Nova, IP or Waterside in the next 5-10 years. Far more likely to see Alexander and maybe something on the UG land before we will see those office buildings go up. I would LOVE to see them all, but realistically it just seems like fantasy to expect more than 1 larger scale office project unless there is a radical change (i.e. the economy picks up AND rules change to dis-encourage all the office space moving out to Burnside and BLIP).

[someone123]

I agree. I think the office towers are a pipe dream, which is why I'm happy that there seems to be more of an emphasis on residential for the Discovery Centre and Roy Building sites. I would also be happy to see some others switch to residential (Waterside in particular, just to get the ball rolling).

The downtown/Barrington area is a bit lacking when it comes to services for residents (compared to SGR for example), but if a few projects come in I could see there being adequate support for something like a small grocery store. If those sorts of stores move back to Barrington then there will be two benefits: greater demand for housing and fewer empty storefronts.

There's some hand-wringing about running out of space for office towers but the reality is that if somebody shows up one day with $100M for an office tower, a developer will be able to make it happen. I think we should be worrying about how we can improve the downtown given current demands, not worrying about whether or not we can accommodate some theoretical future situation.

[worldlyhaligonian]

It would be amazing if IP was built to house more of the Sobey's empire. That way a primary, stable tennant would be secured.

[halifaxboyns]

I have to agree with Someone123 - it shouldn't be a planning for a 'what if' but what is. That being said - I do like WH's comment - it would be nice to see a major tenant move into somewhere like IP to make it workable.

Thinking ahead to how we go about planning for 'what is'...there seems to be some natural areas where density and people want to live. If you look at the article today that the Canadian Institute of Planners voted the Hydrostone second place for it's Great Places in Canada program. Considering the recent apt building that was built and the St. John's project - it seems to me that the Hydrostone is an area that density should be focused (much like the image Harlington posted).

The other area's I'd say (on the Halifax side) would be around Fenwick, Quinpool, Agricola and Gottingen. Definately downtown Dartmouth (in general), but I'd also suggest around the Bridge Terminal. I also see Highfield Park as an urban renewal project waiting to happen - with a transit terminal already there, great reason to implement TOD!

[halifaxboyns]

I thought I would restart this thread since I was doing some research that lead me to the City of Regina's homepage. They are doing a new regional plan, called Design Regina. But on the website, they had this great program where there was a list of priorities (I'm assuming based on their vision) which you could rate in importance (high to low) and then based on how you felt the on transportation and development options - it gave you the trade offs to achieve what you visioned. It was quite an interesting exercise, because it shows you the trade offs of sprawl versus compact form.

Here is the link to their website...it's pretty cool and I encourage you to try it. It's a program like this I'd like to see incorporated for the regional plan process when a new one is required.

[halifaxboyns]

Draft 1 of the Regional Plan update (from RP+5) is now available for public consumption.

It can be found here.

Just reading trough the introduction section and I see the population growth estimates have been revised - with high growth topping us out at 484,153 by 2031 (an estimated increase of about 92,000). Frankly, I would actually have guessed right around 500,000 myself, but that's still impressive!

[Hali87]

A lot of good revisions. It's interesting to note that most of the stuff on transit oriented development is new in this edition. Places like Timberlea, Spryfield, Tantallon and Clayton Park could become much more interesting and pleasant if things play out according to the proposed revisions. I also like the recognition that the Musquodoboit Valley could be better used for food production.

Something I find discouraging though is that no transit upgrades other than "express bus" seem to be in the works (the Bedford ferry and any mention of rail are conspicuously absent from the maps). Based on that it appears that we will end up with a MetroLink route for Bedford, against the recommendations of the consulting firm hired by the city a couple years ago. There also isn't really any mention of developing any transit corridors on the Peninsula (maybe this is relegated to the Centre Plan?). Paving the rail cut is listed as "planned", though.

[halifaxboyns]

Upcoming public meetings for the proposed RP+5 updates. This is taken from the HRM website:
Open House Sessions:*
Monday June 10, 2013
North Preston Community Centre
Community Room
44 Simmonds Road
North Preston
4:30 - 9:00 pm

Wednesday
June 12, 2013
Canada Games Centre
Community Centre Room
26 Thomas Raddall Drive
Halifax
4:30 - 9:00 pm

Thursday
June 13, 2013
Gordon Snow Community Centre
Multi-purpose Room
1359 Fall River Road
Fall River
4:30 - 9:00 pm

Open House and Public Forum:**
Monday
June 17, 2013
Holiday Inn Harbourview
Lake City Ballroom & Terrace
101 Wyse Road
Dartmouth
Open House:
4:30 - 6:30 pm

Forum:
6:30 - 9:00 pm

*During the open house sessions (June 10, 12 and 13th) information displays will be available describing all proposed changes to the Regional Plan. HRM staff will be on-hand to answer questions one-on-one. The open house format will not include a sit-down presentation.

**During the final public consultation session on June 17th, information displays will be available during a two-hour open house (4:30-6:30 pm). At 6:30 pm a public meeting will begin. There will be a presentation given on the changes to the Regional Plan, followed by a town-hall style question-and-answer period.