What is the most bustling streetfront in Altanta?

[Pessimistic Observer]

redoing the marta line isnt happening cause it cost major money and apparently no one in atlanta wants higher taxes for better service.

[amd1588]

Originally Posted by Terminus

I completely disagree about rerouting the buses. I live downtown because of the excellent bus and train access. It's really pissed me off that some buses have been rerouted to GSU or other nearby stations, rather than Five Points, because now I never use them.

It might be one thing if the trains rain every minute, but by forcing a modal shift you add 15 minutes to the trip.

What I mean is that a lot of the bus routes that terminates downtown at Five Points service area's like Thomsville, Carver Homes, etc. Of course these are very low income area. The point I am making is that there has to be somewhere else to put these routes, due to the amount of crime, drugs, etc, that they traffic outside of their neighborhoods and spill over into the city. I do not know if you live in the Carver Homes area, but it certainly couldn't be that bad getting off at Garnett Station and riding up to 5points. I mean I catch a bus everyday and ride in from Indian Creek, so I know what you mean.

[amd1588]

Originally Posted by oftrue

Yea they should give the whole five points area to Georgia State University for expansion. Demolish all those ghetto styles stores, I'm black so let me go on in and be real. Remake five points into a Grand Central Station area for Greyound, Commuter buses, Marta, and trains. Five points is in need of a dramatic culture change. The five points area must be upgraded like now. The area has so much potential. They need to find a way to get idle people off the streets, who are just standing around creating drama. I do believe in helping people who truly have need, but I will never have pity for the lazy. Especially lazy men.

I am black too, so I certainly understand what you mean. It is just absolutely disgusting in that area. Being poor and impoverished is one thins(which I am), but the mess that goes on in Five Points is just ridiculous! Albeit, I am a college student, but still its not good for the Georgia State students in the area or the tourists that come through to see Atlanta.

I disagree though, I do not think they should turn Five Points into the Grand Central Station. I do think it should be a nice station in the area, perhaps something akin to Penn Station, where they would build the base for the commuter rail over the viaducts near the rail yards by the CNN Center and arena. I think that our Grand Central Station should be moved North near Midtown, that way, there would be a wider group of people coming into the city from the north(where there is more money) opening up the city to a wider audience. I think that area near Five Points and South should be made into super dense living area's. It should be working class, students, families, and young professions.

In New York City, their Grand Central Station is in Midtown. So I am certain that Atlanta could do the same. With our station being in Midtown, we could build greater lines connecting to Marietta, Decatur, Emory, Gwinnett, Athens, etc. I think if the Central Station remains in Five points, then it will not draw in many people from the north area's of the metro. Although its in the center of downtown, its no longer the center of Atlanta, technically. It is strategically located, where it will always be closer to extremely low income areas, slums, that would never fly for people on the extreme northside. Area's like Pittsburgh, Mechanicsville, Summerhill, Peoplestown, etc, should receive extreme high density housing improving the infrastructure. I think these area's need to be able to attract Middle Class residents, rather than just simply low income. Not high end, but working class.

[CityFan]

There is no way the central station can be relocated. Functionally speaking, it's not feasible to move it because of its geographical location. Remember that Five Points is where two rails intersect. We have no choice but do something to clean up the area. After all it's our city and the place where we want to enjoy. If we can clean up Buckhead area, why can't we do something to clean up Five Points? We need elect city leaders who have a vision to clean up all bad areas, rather than only focus on small parts of town for some polical reasons. In my view, Underground really doesn't have anything to attract tourists since World of Coca-Cola has already relocated to another location. Maybe there are a few restaurants which are still convenient for people to hang out. I can't think of any particular reason to visit there more often.

[AphroHippi]

Since we're validating our blackness here, I'll say it as well: I'm black, I'm in my early 40's (age validation as well)and I'm reasonably open minded. I agree that the south downtown area is a bustling area, and like many of you are saying, is not aesthetically pleasing and can be intimidating. The main point that's not being brought up is, if that area is cleaned up and "3 billion dollars" worth of renovations are done, the inexpensive stores that are currently there; would probably have to relocate because of higher lease rates.

Then the landlords would have to attract higher end stores and the bustling street (the one that's the premise of this thread) would most likely disappear. For many lower income folks, this is a convenient and inexpensive shopping area. You must also remember that this may be the only close shopping area for most of the folks coming in from the projects and hoods. For many, this is the "mall", albeit a mall that is a lot more affordable and convenient.

While I don't generally shop in south downtown, I've shopped down there a few times over the years and have taken many family members and friends there that are from NY, Philly, DC, and I notice how their faces seem to light up when they experience that area, all of them saying that it reminds them of some parts of home. I can't say that it's a majorly problematic area. I don't hear or read about major crimes happening in that area (other than the recent Underground stabbing death). I think the city needs to do more cleaning and pressuring of storeowners/ landlords to spruce up more and for safety perception tweaking, should put more cops out on the street.

As for the 5 points station, the top of it should be demolished and be replaced with housing (high rise apts/ condos, GSU). MARTA should allow transit related retail in their stations(news stands, bring back the mini libraries, sandwich/ quick food shops, convenience stores, fruit stands).

As for the idea to re-route the "ghetto buses" to another station, why do that? The majority of the folks coming in from those areas are not problematic. What makes a city a city is diversity (ethnic, income, personality), what's being proposed with the re-routing of ghetto buses is to take out an element that may intimidate (but not necessarily cause any harm) so that a homogenous zone can be created and we'll "all be happy".

I'm NOT for rowdy and lewd behavior, but most of the folks perpetuating this type of behavior is enabled by having low amounts of police presence in the south downtown area.

[AphroHippi]

I think the Little 5 points area is the most bustling overall. Geographically, it's a little larger than the one block in south downtown and its "bustle factor" is not skewered by weekday government employees/ GSU students/ having the busiest transit station in the area. Just imagine how much more busier L5P would be if the Inman Park station was literally in the middle of it.

[smArTaLlone]

Well yeah if you take away all the people Downtown, L5P is more bustling.

[ls1z28chris]

Originally Posted by AphroHippi

Since we're validating our blackness here, I'll say it as well: I'm black, I'm in my early 40's (age validation as well)and I'm reasonably open minded. I agree that the south downtown area is a bustling area, and like many of you are saying, is not aesthetically pleasing and can be intimidating. The main point that's not being brought up is, if that area is cleaned up and "3 billion dollars" worth of renovations are done, the inexpensive stores that are currently there; would probably have to relocate because of higher lease rates.

Then the landlords would have to attract higher end stores and the bustling street (the one that's the premise of this thread) would most likely disappear. For many lower income folks, this is a convenient and inexpensive shopping area. You must also remember that this may be the only close shopping area for most of the folks coming in from the projects and hoods. For many, this is the "mall", albeit a mall that is a lot more affordable and convenient.

While I don't generally shop in south downtown, I've shopped down there a few times over the years and have taken many family members and friends there that are from NY, Philly, DC, and I notice how their faces seem to light up when they experience that area, all of them saying that it reminds them of some parts of home. I can't say that it's a majorly problematic area. I don't hear or read about major crimes happening in that area (other than the recent Underground stabbing death). I think the city needs to do more cleaning and pressuring of storeowners/ landlords to spruce up more and for safety perception tweaking, should put more cops out on the street.

As for the 5 points station, the top of it should be demolished and be replaced with housing (high rise apts/ condos, GSU). MARTA should allow transit related retail in their stations(news stands, bring back the mini libraries, sandwich/ quick food shops, convenience stores, fruit stands).

As for the idea to re-route the "ghetto buses" to another station, why do that? The majority of the folks coming in from those areas are not problematic. What makes a city a city is diversity (ethnic, income, personality), what's being proposed with the re-routing of ghetto buses is to take out an element that may intimidate (but not necessarily cause any harm) so that a homogenous zone can be created and we'll "all be happy".

I'm NOT for rowdy and lewd behavior, but most of the folks perpetuating this type of behavior is enabled by having low amounts of police presence in the south downtown area.

Why are people discussing moving the five points station? Who the hell is expecting the entire city of Atlanta to look like the Phipps/Lennox area?

I was raised in the lily white suburbs of Atlanta. Since becoming an adult a decade ago, I have realized that white fear of Atlanta is exaggerated. Compared to other metropolitan areas, Atlanta is safe. If you are still worried about crime, do what I do: get a concealed carry permit.

Quit bitching about crime and talking about relocating Marta stations. Atlanta is never going to be Roswell or Buckhead.

[amd1588]

aa

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by amd1588

And the revitalization of Lee Street, Ashby Street and Abernathy Corridor in the West End. All of these area's are greatly served by public transit.

You know, I forgot about the area on Ralph David Abernathy near the Mall, but it is definitely bustling and has a very urban vibe. I shop there some times and it really feels like you are in the city. That Krispy Kreme is arguably the best in town, and Chanterelle's is always worth a visit.

I have to agree about the area around the Five Points station. It's not dangerous, but it is grungy. Years ago I took the train to that station every day and it was the heart of the city, but things have changed.

[testarossa50]

I think you guys are overestimating the difficulty of reviving the b5P/So Peachtree retail district. I think south downtown has a ton of potential to become a "Pearl District" (Portland, OR) due to the vast amount of available land and compact block layout.

I frankly think the main obstacle to developing this area aren't the fried chicken stalls and sports apparel stores, I think it's just how damned sketchy south peachtree gets at night--I'm talking about 4-5 blocks south of b5P. has anyone actually driven near Peachtree/Trinity around 11-12 at night? It's really unbelievable how many transient people there are wandering in the surface lots; it totally blows SoNo out of the water.

[AphroHippi]

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris
Why are people discussing moving the five points station? Who the hell is expecting the entire city of Atlanta to look like the Phipps/Lennox area?

I was raised in the lily white suburbs of Atlanta. Since becoming an adult a decade ago, I have realized that white fear of Atlanta is exaggerated. Compared to other metropolitan areas, Atlanta is safe. If you are still worried about crime, do what I do: get a concealed carry permit.

Quit bitching about crime and talking about relocating Marta stations. Atlanta is never going to be Roswell or Buckhead.

I totally agree Is1z28chris!

Originally Posted by amd1588
The idea of relocating the central station with me has nothing to do with crime or race. I myself am black, not that that means anything, but I find five points distressing. The reason I say the central station should be moved north is because strategically the city itself has moved north. All that is left at five points is those who migrate into the city to change buses or trains from projects, low income area's, etc. In addition to GSU students and govermental workers in the daytime.

I love the area, in the daytime, but some changes need to happen. Five points to me is NOT frightening, its boring, dull, predictable, and disgusting.
I firmly believe that the only way to make the city take pride in that area or any area, is if its a crossroads for all of the city. Since Five points will never again be the crossroads for the Atlanta Metropolitan area, I think it should be moved north in the city, and the addition of other train lines will be able to direct an even larger flow of people to that area. And to remedy the situation in Five Points, I think the station should be rerouted and the area converted into apartments, restaurants, bar's, etc for the students and other young and working people that live in the area. Regardless, it should be high density living over what we today see as five points station. The station itself can remain with a subway shaft somewhere so that people will not be able to just linger around and set up shop in that area where college kids will be living. I think it is possible.

I also think that many of the parking lots around underground should be filled in with apartments and row houses. And the railroads adjacent to the CNN Center should be covered with a park, trees, and more housing. Housing is the key to Five Points' survival, as far as quality of life is concerned. Until some people live there and take pride in the community, it will always be plagued by these issues, because everyone goes home at night in the suburbs.

Also, because I am black, I do not see great pride in the "African American culture of Five Points". I hardly consider those little gold teeth shops, hot wing stands, Korean wig shops that sale platinum blond weaves, and cell phone payment centers as paying homage to our rich cultural heritage. I think if a great Black corridor is what we are looking for, then we should stick with reviving of Auburn Avenue, which is going great. And the revitalization of Lee Street, Ashby Street and Abernathy Corridor in the West End. All of these area's are greatly served by public transit. And even though there is not much shopping on Auburn Avenue, whenever I get a chance I always go down to the Caribbean restaurant there or the First Black owned Barber shop in Atlanta at Auburn and Piedmont. To me that is Afro-American culture... Not that travesty called Five Points.

Also, I have had friends from Brooklyn to say that Five points remind them of NYC. And I can understand that. Its the ONLY place in Atlanta where there is a street grid with stores right up to the street. Many of the buildings in Brooklyn and Five Points were likely built in the same era as a opposed to say The Mall of Georgia... But trust me, the life is gone out of Five Points, as far as I'm concerned.

My mother who grew up in Atlanta(Kirkwood) can recall Five Points in its glory days. As well as Auburn Avenue in its glory days. She tells me how as a child her mother would take her to their downtown(Auburn Avenue) and it would be so wonderful to see the Black Mannequins, Fashions, and restaurants, nightclubs that use to line that once densely populated urban street. Even she can't bare to be in Five Points these days.

While 5 points may not be as aesthetically pleasing as the Peachtree center area or much of Midtown, it can be cleaned, renovated and turned around. While Atlanta's center of influence has certainly moved north (more like in the Buckhead or Sandy Springs area), I don't think that this fact alone justify "moving" the 5 points station further north. This would be nothing short of insanity, especially after all of the infrastrucure that was put in place nearly 30 years ago. The area outside 5 points station evolved over the past 30 years to reflect the majority of its shoppers' demographics. Because of convenience (i.e. two subway lines intersecting, major bus routes congregating in that small area, the type of shops, street vendor stalls evolved to serve the majority of the people that came through the area. In other words this is not the same 5 points your mother enjoyed, it fits a different demographic. People who like the popular conception of the ghetto lifestyle, shop in the 5 points area. I wouldn't say that the life is gone out of 5 points either, as I'm sure that the retailers down there enjoy relatively high sales per square foot numbers (unsubstantiated). You're equating a high percentage of ghetto lifestyle targeted stores with lifelessness of the district as a whole. Your ideas would remove a viable, convenient area catering mostly to lower income folks, just so that it looks better and we won't possibly be embarrassed by a segment of the population that we may not connect with philosophically, socially and/or economically. Target, Abercrombie, H & M or any other mainstream, more upscale type of retailer would scramble to be in that area...if the demographic were different. But they would not be as prosperous down there. Your assertions seem to border on aesthetics, which we all are concerned about, but moving 5 points station would not do anything but waste much money. I say clean it up, make the retailers more responsible for aesthetics, clean up that area of Trinity and Peachtree and understand that NOT all areas of downtown will be filled with upscale stores (the ones without the gold teeth shops and athletic apparel), downtown will have homeless shelters, and social services areas that may not be as attractive to look at, but still should be cleaned and responsibly cared for as NOT to look blighted.