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  #161  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 12:09 PM
phrenic phrenic is offline
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The Owner of O'Carroll's isn't a big fan of the Heritage Trust.

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O'Carrol's owner slams group opposing makeover
LINDSAY JONES, METRO HALIFAX
August 07, 2008 05:00
AnswerTips-enabled

The owner of O’Carroll’s wants heritage advocates to get “off his bandwagon.”



Bruce Keith says the proposed development on Upper Water Street will save, not destroy, the Imperial Oil Building, which houses his Irish pub and restaurant.

“The façade everyone is worried about is crumbling,” Keith said.

The building is sinking, the systems are “obsolete at best” and the basement suffers from “incessant flooding.”

“I’m worried we’re going to lose the whole building to decay if the project doesn’t go through.”

The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia presented a petition to council Tuesday opposing Armour Group’s Waterside Centre. It’s a proposal to redevelop the block between Hollis, Duke and Upper Water Streets into a nine-storey retail and office building with underground parking.

Built on top of historic buildings, city staff say the project would preserve the facades. Sweet Basil’s dining room, which is not a heritage property, would be demolished. A demolition permit has also been sought for O’Carroll’s, though the plan is to try and renovate it first.

Keith says he’s not worried about the demolition application. He has an agreement that the developer will “look after” him and his staff during construction.

He said the restaurant’s historic interior is not original, and includes wood salvaged from the old Capital Theatre, which the developer plans to include in the redesign.

Keith says the heritage group is out of line.

“They’re running around protecting people who don’t want help,” he said.

“Write your letters, talk to city hall, but for God’s sake if you want to involve someone’s business … you should at least talk to me and get my opinion.”

City staff support the project, but two other citizens’ groups — the District 12 Planning Advisory Committee and the Heritage Advisory Committee — oppose it.
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  #162  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 12:32 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Good!
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  #163  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 12:46 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Well there's a comment on allnovascotia too stating the developer is not tearing down the heritage buildings as well.

Last edited by sdm; Sep 15, 2008 at 6:14 PM.
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  #164  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 1:16 PM
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- Sweet Basil will be completely demolished and not rebuit
- O'Carrols will be completely demolished and rebuilt (not the same)
- the remaining buildings will be completely gutted and incorporated unless they have to be torn down as well.
- the open walkway will be completely covered in, with a small walkway through the building.
- the morses tea wall will be mostly covered up
- the stone wall on the south facing wall will be demolished

Yes there are issues with trying to make this postage stamp site into an office development...it is a bad fit and a bad design!

"bick is crumbling, roof is leaking, wiring/plumbing is bad, basement floods etc." This may be true but all of these conditions were present at historic properties before it was restored and look at the result" The bottom line is thes buildings should be restored like historic properties and become part of it. Cost is prohibitive but new ownership with a new agenda is required.
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  #165  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 2:53 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
- the remaining buildings will be completely gutted and incorporated unless they have to be torn down as well.
What remaining buildings? I thought this development was only going to effect the O'Carrols and Sweet Basil buildings?

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- the morses tea wall will be mostly covered up
Which wall, the one adjacent to the development? If so, that's a shame, that would make for a very interesting interior wall in the new building. Cleaned up of course.

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- the stone wall on the south facing wall will be demolished
South facing wall of which building? Morse's Tea? If so, huge shame. That building, aside from interior renovations, shouldn't be touched.

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Yes there are issues with trying to make this postage stamp site into an office development...it is a bad fit and a bad design!
I kind of agree, I like the idea behind the development, but the actual renderings of the proposal I'm not a fan of...

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"bick is crumbling, roof is leaking, wiring/plumbing is bad, basement floods etc." This may be true but all of these conditions were present at historic properties before it was restored and look at the result" The bottom line is thes buildings should be restored like historic properties and become part of it. Cost is prohibitive but new ownership with a new agenda is required.
It would be nice to see it restored and integrated into the existing historic properties site... what exactly is the Morse's Tea building used for these days anyway?
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  #166  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 6:07 PM
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Jonovision Jonovision is offline
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I really don't like this proposal. I think it cuts through the last remaining true heritage areas that remain in the downtown. The design is very uninspiring in my opinion. I understand that the block isn't very usable the way it is, but I think they could do a better job. I really like the idea of renovating it to resemble Historic Properties. That is the best solution I have yet to hear.
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  #167  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 9:43 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Ha, and who said we "pro-development" futurists can't be reasonable and actually promote heritage sites too. Better look out, next thing we'll be arguing against Alan Parish again..except the roles will be reversed.
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  #168  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 1:15 AM
sdm sdm is offline
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Interesting response from the developer to council in the allnovascotia today stating reference to 1978 MPS and 1973 council recommendations. Interesting reading for sure.
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  #169  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 2:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdm View Post
Interesting response from the developer to council in the allnovascotia today stating reference to 1978 MPS and 1973 council recommendations. Interesting reading for sure.
Can you give us the details on what was said? I don't have a subscription
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  #170  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 1:45 AM
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I am going to be writing to Pacey about the things he's said... just asking him to maybe be thinking about what he says before he goes and says it- and to ask just what exactly the heritage trust is doing, protecting the heritage properties?... or stopping development?, because right now it seems he is doing a good job of flip flopping between roles.. which just technically cancel what he's already said, out.
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  #171  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2008, 12:23 PM
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The developer strikes back
McCrea says Heritage Trust is spreading "misinformation’
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Mon. Aug 11 - 4:46 AM



(Ted Pritchard / Staff)





A veteran Halifax developer who helped create Historic Properties is striking back at a local heritage group for what he calls misinformation about his latest development proposal.

Much like the award-winning design for Armour Group’s Founder Square, its Waterside Centre proposal would connect six existing buildings where Duke Street meets Hollis and Upper Water streets, save their historic facades and put a six-storey glass office tower above them.

Over the Natal Day weekend, Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia members set up in downtown Halifax, handing out postcards titled Save Halifax’s Historic Properties!

The postcards, addressed to Halifax’s mayor and councillors, say that Armour plans to "completely demolish two buildings . . . and to mostly demolish three other buildings in the central block of Historic Properties."

"Armour proposes to construct a nine-storey modernistic building attached to remnants of the existing buildings."

The postcard asks readers "not to allow the destruction of these buildings" and asks them to sign the card and submit it as part of a petition.

Using that method, the group reached out to 683 people. Last week, the group submitted all of their names to regional council as part of its protest.

However, the card’s statements are "inaccurate and misleading," Armour Group chairman Ben McCrea wrote in a letter to councillors and Mayor Peter Kelly. "They are intended to be (a) headline-grabbing reference to demolition of heritage buildings which will result in a substantial number of e-mails and phone calls to members of council," he wrote in his letter, a copy of which was sent to The Chronicle Herald.

"The misinformation has been presented by members of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to the residents so as to entice their signature. The purposeful sensationalism of the petition presented and the statements of Mr. (Phil) Pacey to the media are an unprofessional way for the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to conduct itself," Mr. McCrea wrote.

Mr. Pacey is the heritage group’s president.

One of the buildings was not considered for heritage designation and "cannot be upgraded or incorporated" into the new plan at Waterside Centre, Mr. McCrea wrote.

"It is an obsolete, wood-framed building that cannot be viably incorporated into the redevelopment," said a city staff report written a few months ago.

It will be demolished under an existing permit in the near future.

Restaurants such as O’Carroll’s and Subway could go back into their current locations, but the buildings will have upgraded walls, wiring and footings.

The work is necessary because the buildings, especially the one housing O’Carroll’s, are old. The Irish pub and restaurant, in fact, sits on 80-year-old wooden pilings.

Mr. McCrea said in a recent interview with The Chronicle Herald that the plan to connect the buildings is necessary to make them viable.

"We’re doing the best we can to avoid having boarded-up buildings or a parking lot," he said in an interview, noting the $1.5-million cost of the restoration.

"We’re just trying to bring our heritage past into a modern, urban core, with sustainable economic development."

Regional council was set to make a decision last Tuesday whether to send the proposal to a public hearing, but a lengthy meeting forced council to defer the issue until this week.

( apugsley@herald.ca)

’The misinformation has been pre sented by members of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia to the residents so as to entice their signature.’

BEN McCREA Developer
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  #172  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2008, 4:24 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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Lots of high quality commentary in the comments for this article on the Herald site. LOL. Check it out for a laugh. You have the typical "build it in Dartmouth Crossing" comment and of course the obligatory non-sensical off-topic rant from "LIFE SUCKS".

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1072513.html

That said... I'm on the fence on this one. I'm not a HT fan... but I'm not so sure about this project. And the point made about Founders Square is valid. They saved the facades but still killed the street. Then again... O'Carolls and Subway are supposed to stay put. So that's good. You have to have street level retail.
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  #173  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2008, 5:04 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
Lots of high quality commentary in the comments for this article on the Herald site. LOL. Check it out for a laugh. You have the typical "build it in Dartmouth Crossing" comment and of course the obligatory non-sensical off-topic rant from "LIFE SUCKS".

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1072513.html

That said... I'm on the fence on this one. I'm not a HT fan... but I'm not so sure about this project. And the point made about Founders Square is valid. They saved the facades but still killed the street. Then again... O'Carolls and Subway are supposed to stay put. So that's good. You have to have street level retail.
I remember when founders square was built; the entire lower lobby and hollis street frontage was business services/retail. As economic conditions changed in the 1990's so did its use. These business moved to areas of high foot traffic and or closed. It is sad to see this as it really is the best use for those spaces, but to me you can't blame the building design for economic business decisions on part of business owners. Maybe as the downtown economically becomes a better place for retail these areas may once be filled with retail type tenancy, but unless we get more people working/living it may not happen.
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  #174  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2008, 12:26 AM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
I remember when founders square was built; the entire lower lobby and hollis street frontage was business services/retail.
I didn't know that. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
It is sad to see this as it really is the best use for those spaces, but to me you can't blame the building design for economic business decisions on part of business owners.
True enough.
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  #175  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2008, 3:08 PM
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Haliguy Haliguy is offline
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Controversial development goes to vote
LINDSAY JONES, METRO HALIFAX
August 12, 2008 05:00




Council will vote tonight on whether a controversial downtown development will go to a public hearing.


Armour Group’s Waterside Centre proposal would connect six buildings where Duke, Upper Water and Hollis Streets meet, save their historic facades and build a six-storey, glass office tower above them.


The proposal faces strong opposition from the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia.


The Trust recently launched a postcard campaign, saying say that Armour plans to “completely demolish two buildings” and “mostly demolish three other buildings in the central block of Historic Properties.”


In a letter to the mayor and councilors, the Armour Group accused the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia of spreading misinformation about the development in an effort to entice citizens to reject the project.


“They are intended to be headline grabbing reference to demolition of heritage buildings,” Armour chairman Ben McCrea wrote.


The developer of Founders Square in Historic Properties also said the building he wants to demolish, the Sweet Basil dining room, is not a heritage building.


Obtaining a demolition permit for O’Carroll’s is a last resort in case the foundation needs to be replaced.


The group recently gathered 683 signatures on a petition titled Save Halifax’s Historic Properties! and presented it to council last week.


In its report, city staff say council will have to consider two competing policies when making a decision: the restoration of municipally-registered heritage properties and the need for increasing the amount of downtown office space.


Downtown Coun. Dawn Sloane hasn’t made up her mind yet on whether she will support the project, but admitted she’s getting fed up with the city’s “soft” approach to development.


Like other recently approved downtown developments, Sloane says Waterside Centre doesn’t conform to planning policies.


“We just seem to be pushing the limit a little too much too many times,” she said.


Council is scheduled to start at 6 p.m. tonight
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  #176  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2008, 4:22 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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Thanks for the post Haliguy.

Two comments on the story.

1. Why do people insist on calling everything a tower? Six stories is not a tower.

2. What planning policies?
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  #177  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2008, 4:23 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Thing i find odd is staff recommends the project and claims it conforms to the polices, if it didn't then it wouldn't have even made it this far.
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  #178  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 12:47 AM
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i heard that this was granted a public hearing today during this afternoon's council meeting. Not sure the date, but likely this will be interesting.
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  #179  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 11:53 AM
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Public hearing set for Waterside development

The public will soon get to weigh in on Armour Group’s proposed Waterside Centre development.
Council voted yesterday to allow the controversial development — which would connect six buildings where Duke, Upper Water and Hollis streets meet — to go to a public hearing.


The proposal also includes saving the buildings’ historic facades and building a six-storey glass office tower above them. The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia strongly opposes the project.


The public hearing will be held in September at the earliest.
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  #180  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Waterside Centre project going to public hearing

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Wed. Aug 13 - 4:46 AM

The public will get their say next month on a new development proposed for downtown Halifax.

Ben McCrea’s latest project, called Waterside Centre, would unify six buildings at the corner of Duke and Hollis Streets.

It’s across the street from the developer’s 1970s award-winning renovation of old warehouses and buildings at Historic Properties.

Recently, the new proposal from his Armour Group has been targeted by the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia.

The heritage group orchestrated a natal day petition blitz and brought more than 650 signatures to council opposing the building.

They said the six-storey glass tower proposed on top of the three-storey buildings would require the demolition of three key buildings.

Mr. McCrea retaliated by sending out documents of his own to council, accusing the heritage group of circulating "misinformation."

One non-heritage wooden building will be demolished because it can’t be "upgraded or incorporated" into the new design, he told councillors.

City staffers have given their approval to the project, which was designed by Halifax architect Andy Lynch.

Subsequently, two volunteer advisory bodies to council – the heritage advisory committee and the downtown planning advisory committee – didn’t endorse it.

Now members of the public will get a chance to voice their opinions on the proposal. On Tuesday at city hall, regional councillors voted in favour of sending the project before a public hearing. Although a date was not assigned to the hearing, the project can’t be heard until September owing to regional council’s three-week summer break.

( apugsley@herald.ca)
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