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  #7081  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 7:38 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
Both Autoroute 5 and 50 look like they were placed beside natural and other pre-existing features that already isolated downtown from other parts of the city. A-50 runs north-south beside a river and a railway, and A-5 runs through a valley beside a bay to the river. Both of these barriers existed prior to the autoroute era.
True, but is a freeway the best use for waterfront property? In the case of the A-5, it is set back a bit from the water, thus completely cutting the land off from any potential use (even wildlife) other than a few trees. The amount of potential urban land wasted by those highways and their interchanges is significant.

Without the highway, pedestrian bridges could be built, but with the highway ends up doubling the length of the bridge required, increasing its cost and decreasing its desirability.

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  #7082  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Good point. Placing the highway here would have left Saint John much better connected.

I have a vague recollection of the Saint John railway station before the thruway was built. I was there precisely once (to catch the train) as a child, probably in the late 1960's. I remember a fairly grand building with a bit of a civic square in front.



Found a photo. To lose this building was a crime...........
That is a damn impressive looking railway station... probably the grandest one in the Maritimes. I don't remember seeing a photo of it before.
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  #7083  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
True, but is a freeway the best use for waterfront property? In the case of the A-5, it is set back a bit from the water, thus completely cutting the land off from any potential use (even wildlife) other than a few trees. The amount of potential urban land wasted by those highways and their interchanges is significant.

Without the highway, pedestrian bridges could be built, but with the highway ends up doubling the length of the bridge required, increasing its cost and decreasing its desirability.

I think most people would admit that it was a mistake. There are long-term plans to decommission the A-50 segment in the middle of the photo from Allumettières to the A-5, and turn the road into an urban boulevard with more human-scale development on both sides.
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  #7084  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 8:16 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think most people would admit that it was a mistake. There are long-term plans to decommission the A-50 segment in the middle of the photo from Allumettières to the A-5, and turn the road into an urban boulevard with more human-scale development on both sides.
I thought there were similar plans with the A-5 east of the A-50. I could be confused though.
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  #7085  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Are there any plans to finish the A40 bypass around Trois Rivieres?

I always thought that an interesting little stretch of road. I haven't encountered many small Canadian cities where a 60s freeway cuts right through the heart of town. It reminds me of what'd you would typically see in the US, but only rarely in Canada.
There doesn't seem to be a will to complete it in the near future as the cloverleaf interchange of A40-A55 has been reconfigured into a safer more user-friendly trumpet configuration (preventing the eastward extension). You might have seen this new configuration depending on the last time you were in Trois-Rivières.
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  #7086  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I thought there were similar plans with the A-5 east of the A-50. I could be confused though.
The A-5 doesn't really go east of the A-50. A-5 is north-south and A-50 is east-west.

For those who can read French, it's here starting at page 57:

https://www.gatineau.ca/docs/guichet...ille.fr-CA.pdf
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  #7087  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
True, but is a freeway the best use for waterfront property? In the case of the A-5, it is set back a bit from the water, thus completely cutting the land off from any potential use (even wildlife) other than a few trees. The amount of potential urban land wasted by those highways and their interchanges is significant.

Without the highway, pedestrian bridges could be built, but with the highway ends up doubling the length of the bridge required, increasing its cost and decreasing its desirability.

I don't see why a pedestrian bridge couldn't be built if there was need. The length of the bridge doesn't affect durability.
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  #7088  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2018, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think most people would admit that it was a mistake. There are long-term plans to decommission the A-50 segment in the middle of the photo from Allumettières to the A-5, and turn the road into an urban boulevard with more human-scale development on both sides.
I don't agree with that. And I hate arguments that state that because one person agrees with it that everybody must -- it just seems like such a lazy argument.

Rebuilding the end of Autoroute 50 as a "human scale" street seems like a mistake. I guess automobiles must not be driven by humans. The end of an expressway is a poor "human scale" environment. Try as one might, no urban planner is actually going to get cars to slow down in a meaningful enough way for people to want to cross the street. Moreso, like it or not, the end of Autoroute 50 is still an important connection for traffic continuing west on Roue 148, so there is still going to be lots of traffic to contend with.

More likely, this plan is just a plan to sell more land for additional locations of Canadian Tire, Tim Horton's and Pharmaprix. It's an opportunity for more highway commercial development, not anything meaningful in terms of urbanity.
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  #7089  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 2:00 AM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
I don't see why a pedestrian bridge couldn't be built if there was need. The length of the bridge doesn't affect durability.
I said desirability not durability. Longer bridges are less desirable to pedestrians.

Last edited by roger1818; Oct 10, 2018 at 2:59 AM.
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  #7090  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 2:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
I don't agree with that. And I hate arguments that state that because one person agrees with it that everybody must -- it just seems like such a lazy argument.
I agree that without stats to prove it, assuming that most people would agree isn't a compelling argument; however, I do agree with Acajack that it was a mistake.

Quote:
Rebuilding the end of Autoroute 50 as a "human scale" street seems like a mistake. I guess automobiles must not be driven by humans. The end of an expressway is a poor "human scale" environment. Try as one might, no urban planner is actually going to get cars to slow down in a meaningful enough way for people to want to cross the street. Moreso, like it or not, the end of Autoroute 50 is still an important connection for traffic continuing west on Roue 148, so there is still going to be lots of traffic to contend with.
There are many examples of how converting an expressway to a boulevard has improved the community around it. Probably the best know one is the Embarcadero Freeway in San Fransisco. The elevated highway was significantly damaged in the 1989 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and converted to a boulevard. As described in this article, this transition has revitalized the area around San Fransisco's historic Ferry Building.

Closer to home (at least for Gatineau residents), in Montreal, the foot of the Bonaventure Expressway was recently converted from an elevated highway to a boulevard between Wellington and Notre-Dame. I was skeptical about it making the pedestrian experience any better, but when I was there last spring, I was pleasantly surprised how much nicer it was (I regularly walk along Wellington from Peel St to Prince St when I visit and will walk beside the expressway to get to the train station) and am now a believer that this type of transition can work. Now could it be made even better? Most likely, but it is much better than it originally was.
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  #7091  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 7:33 PM
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The Embarcadero Freeway is not at all similar to any of the freeways in Gatineau. At all. The Embarcadero was built through an established part of the city, and really cut off parts of the waterfront from the rest of the city. None of Gatineau's roads were built like that. Because so much of San Francisco's Expressway network wasn't actually built the road also just functioned as a glorified off-ramp as well. Though, as much as I too don't lament the loss of that particular freeway either, San Francisco's transportation network shouldn't be used as a model for any other city. It's hard to get around there. The lack of transportation options has almost certainly contributed to the astronomical housing prices that the city has today.

And, there are examples of areas of the areas of the cities that have done just fine after a freeway was rammed through. Certainly the Brooklyn Heights area of NYC is doing just fine after the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway was pushed through 70 years ago.

The removal of the Bonaventure Expressway didn't really bother me to be honest. It seems there was a certain logic not to spend a tonne of money rehabilitating an aging elevated structure that dead ends a short distance to the north. I'd probably have been more bothered if the Ville-Marie had have been finished, because the ramps to that expressway from A-10 are now a little bit less convenient now than they were before. I will say though, the probability of a collision between a vehicle and a pedestrian seems more likely now than it did before construction. Coming southbound out of the tunnel from the Ville-Marie spits traffic out right at the first southbound traffic signal. It's much more plausible (though still probably not all that likely) that a southbound vehicle could emerge from the tunnel, particularly heading south into the winter sun, and be blinded by glare and miss a red signal. That type of scenario wasn't possible in the previous configuration.

I'd also go so far as to say that if the Route 148 boulevard that was built a decade ago through Gatineau had have been built as a depressed expressway, the pedestrian connections through that part of the city would probably be much better than they are today. (If they had have been able to use earthen walls through the depressed section, the highway probably would have been a lot quieter for the surrounding residents compared to the current configuration as well).
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  #7092  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post

It's worth noting that a lot of the areas near the A-5/A-50 interchange, and the portions of A-50 extending northward, are subject to seasonal flooding. I'm not sure it would have had much development value at the time the highway was constructed, and would even be difficult to develop now.

Redeveloping the 'southern' end of the A-50 into a boulevard would also be of limited value unless connections were made to the city grid to both the east and west of the highway location. This is something made additionally difficult due to the Ruisseau de la Brasserie on the east and by the presence of the Rapibus corridor that parallels that section of the A-50 to the west.
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  #7093  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 9:56 PM
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This is cute... CBC opinion piece about driving in NL.

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...nder-1.4852226
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  #7094  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2018, 3:23 AM
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Quebec highways 5 and 105, near Wakefield.

A pleasant day in the Ottawa area over Wakefield.




D827083 highways 5 and 105
by Chuck Clark, on Flickr
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  #7095  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2018, 3:57 AM
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That’s some really sharp curve on A-5.
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  #7096  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
That’s some really sharp curve on A-5.
When driving it, it doesn't seem so bad.
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  #7097  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2018, 11:42 PM
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I don't normally do these driving videos but with a dashcam in my car now I might as well share some footage. Here's the heart of Toronto's canyon along the Gardiner at night.

Video Link
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  #7098  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2018, 10:38 PM
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New video !
Enjoy the natural landscapes along Highway 6 through the La Cloche mountains, Ontario !

Video Link
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  #7099  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2018, 11:47 PM
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Thanks FrAnKs. I drove this highway just this summer. Very interesting drive. I liked the ferry ride from Tobermory to Manitoulin better though. It seemed very Maritime to me. Hard to imagine you are crossing just a small bit of an inland fresh body of water.

Lake Huron fascinates me - more so than the ocean does.......
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  #7100  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 4:20 PM
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New video !
Enjoy the natural landscapes along Highway 6 through the La Cloche mountains, Ontario !

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From Espanola to Little Current is my favourite drive on my motorcycle.
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