Anyone else think Vancouver is a car-heavy city?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Waterfront retail and restaurants are quite daring My God, what if it turned in to something like Venice Beach!


http://www.flickr.com/photos/syume/4...n/photostream/

Look at all those misfits invading somebodies million dollar view.

kind of reminds me of white rocks little strip of restaurants and shops which is always hopping

but here you have starbucks across teh street from english bay you grab your latte and go sit on a log at the beach

[simonfiction]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i'm not arguing its just a different lifestyle and vancouver is pretty different we like our space and we like our cars

have you been to the plazas in the area? they are all relatively new - convention centre, olympic village - they are fairly used and once the retail etc opens should draw more down

Yea, I've checked out a lot of the new plaza areas. I really like them, they've done a good job IMO. I know most of the development I've seen have been on the back of the Olympic wave, but I'm pretty blown away by some of the new developments in Vancouver in my short time here. It had a big influence on my decision to stay.

[BCPhil]

Don't forger, we tried the pedestrian mall on Granville before, and it lost to the indoor mall.

Pre-80's, Granville was the entertainment street where people of all creeds could go, from Families enjoying a movie to young adults enjoying a club, to more refined people enjoying a play or musical. Be young or old, rich or poor, Granville street was your destination at night.

Then it declined in the 70's and 80's when it became a pedestrian mall. The clubs, pubs, and theaters closed. They were quickly replaced with porn stores, peepshows, and pawn shops. Instead of dressed up party goers walking the street at night, it became just men in trench coats (and nothing underneath) and call girls.

It didn't help that this happened in the era of the mall. Shoppers went from window shopping the cold rainy streets to the airconditioned indoors near their suburban homes. But the lack of car traffic on the street only helped in making Granville feel "out of the way" and the lack of eyes encouraged the scum of the city to gather there. Granville's downward spiral only encouraged more people into the malls, and with the closure of Eaton's on Hastings ( to go into the Mall, and the eventual bankruptcy of Woodwards) did the same for Hastings.

Only just in the last 5 years has Granville been getting it's former glory back. It's nightlife is slowly returning, but that's mostly due to the concentrated efforts of previous city councils to force every club possible onto the street. And the construction of the building next to the Vancouver Block (that the Future shop is in) has helped, but the inward facing mall still remains on that stretch of road. And on the rest of Granville, there still isn't that many key tenants that would drive massive amounts of all day foot traffic. Mid-day, Hastings in the CBD is far more cluttered with pedestrians than Granville.

I'm really hoping that bringing back buses to Granville street gets a lot more pedestrians into the area during the day. But you'll understand if I'm a little weary of returning to the Granville Mall of old.

With more people using the increasing transit and bike options available, along with far more people living downtown, I have hopes that we can avoid repeats of the past. I think a good test will be the new convention center. If tenants can move into the storefronts on the seawall, and make a living all year round, then we can look at more pedestrian only options.

[SpongeG]

yeah i think the city is maturing and in my 20 or so years here i can't recognize parts

and with the changes peoples wants etc are changing but i don't think cars will go away - they are less tolerated though and things like car free days have popped up in recent years

gas guzzlers will become electrics they will be quieter though

[dleung]

The pedestrian-only streets common in many North American cities are often isolated exceptions (or tourist traps) in a sea of wide arterials and freeways. Vancouver more than makes up for the lack of a formalized pedestrian zone, with generally narrower and more walkable streets city-wide. Transit statistics will attest to that.

[red-paladin]

To be fair, I don't know if all of you have been to Jack Poole Plaza in the summer, but it's been very busy. Basically from Canada Place through to coal harbour park it's been packed with people. That is a lot of pedestrian only space. Some of the stores have opened in the new spaces (like subway), and I can only see it getting livelier when the restaurants open at the part of the seawall north of the convention centre expansion, and the cactus club.

[SpongeG]

i go down there a lot its great to just sit and watch stroll take it easy

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by simonfiction

Anyways, I'm straying away from my original point slightly. I wasn't trying to attack the presense cars downtown, merely pointing out the lack of any pedestrian space there.

Another thing to keep in mind is that unlike a lot of cities around the world, available real-estate is limited. There are just few large plots of land that weren't sub-divided by the railroad and sold off. The CPR, actually divided the lots rather small, which is why many of the historic buildings around town are rather narrow compared to their block large modern counterparts.

Vancouver was a for profit, business city. This low burden to the tax payer, with high profits for investors, led to the city, and province, owning very little land in what would become downtown. That's why there is a lack of public squares and pedestrian space, it's because people own almost all the land, and always have. The city has only recently in it's history built up a real estate inventory that is quite impressive, and most of the lands it currently own used to be industrial.

This has led to another Vancouver trend: efficient use of space. There's little open public space because everywhere you look, someone either works or lives in that space and most of it is privately owned. For a long time, we believed, why have a giant open square when a couple hundred people could work or live here? Why should taxpayers be burdened with expenses when businesses could make profits (thus keep taxes low for individuals).

Vancouver is also street heavy because unlike other, older cities, Vancouver was built around the streetcar. We have roads that are predated by the interurban lines that used be there. The Burrard Street Bridge probably predates 90% of the buildings currently standing in the city. We built our city on the grid, and using cars just became natural.

[Delirium]

I find Vancouver drivers to be the most strung out of any canadian city i've lived in. people here really freak out if A) you run a yellow or <gasp>red light B) your car is partially blocking an intersection C) insist on honking the horn for over a minute if god forbid you did something that's not within the law.

the nicer your vehicle, the more people get angry too. especially pedestrians. notice how people react when a shitty car is blocking an intersection versus a maserati say. guess who gets more head shakes and "stares"? some people get really angry in fact.

i also think the city does a terrible job at managing road construction and closures. it's like they don't give a shit on how it impacts everyday life.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Delirium

I find Vancouver drivers to be the most strung out of any canadian city i've lived in. people here really freak out if A) you run a yellow or <gasp>red light B) your car is partially blocking an intersection C) insist on honking the horn for over a minute if god forbid you did something that's not within the law.

the nicer your vehicle, the more people get angry too. especially pedestrians. notice how people react when a shitty car is blocking an intersection versus a maserati say. guess who gets more head shakes and "stares"? some people get really angry in fact.

i also think the city does a terrible job at managing road construction and closures. it's like they don't give a shit on how it impacts everyday life.

And I disagree with you on almost everything. People seem so laid back driving here, it's frustrating to be honest. And your comment 'the nicer the vehicle' might stem to the fact you're being stereotyped as being within the drug trade, particularly if you aren't Caucasian.

I think BC is so overkill on managing construction traffic, flag people galore, and you don't need them half the time.

[trofirhen]

As to whether Vancouver is a car-heavy city or not, one of the better ways to find out is to compare it to a city of similar size and composition.

I'm thinking of San Diego. The metro population there is very close to ours, and they have a respectable rapid transit system.

Yet - perhaps because the city is less dense, and / or the presence of large interstate freeways - San Diego always comes across as having a wisp of traffic, even on the I-5 (well, perhaps not at rush hour, but at other times, traffic is light)

The residential streets are quiet, with only moderate vehicle traffic.
Why this is ... I cannot give a definitive answer, but several things cross my mind: the city is more spread ot and less dense than Vancouver, and the freeways take the much of the traffic off the city streets.

Also, their rapid transit systel reaches deep into the suburbs, and helps take the vehicle load off the streets, although I have to admit their bus service is
nowhere as good as hours. The streets seem wider, possibly offering a larger per centage of lane space .....

Can't say why, but San Diego has a park-like feeling to most of it, which would and could not exist in Vancouver, where the traffic is anywhere from moderate during off-hours, to rabid-dog-crush at peak times. (or so it seems.)

A comparative study might be interesting.

[SpongeG]

maybe its cause so many people can't afford to be downtown so they buy in langley and drive downtown more since thats where they want to be

[Alex Mackinnon]

I'd say most of the frusteration and road rage in Vancouver comes from the fact that you really don't ever get anywhere fast, at least not during the day. When you feel like you're wasting your time everything is a piss off.

[LotusLand]

All this talk and people forget Vancouver is the most walkable city in Canada!
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2010/05/v...able-city.html

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

So it's like the Bow River Pathway System, just a lot less extensive (Calgary has around 700km of paved pathways), but with much nicer parts that have restaurant frontage (is the scene in the picture above somewhat common?). if there is retail and restaurant frontage on the seawall network then that could be considered pedestrian oriented development and is valid. I still think a pedestrian mall would be a good idea though.

A lot less extensive? Perhaps if you're only counting by kms (and even then, only in the City of Van itself). Vancouver's seawall system and adjacent bike lane network cover the central very well and make it a very bikeable city. Even without the bike lanes the seawall system is pretty impressive, and much desirable than any Bow River Valley - no offense.

Looking at this map at the link below, literally almost all of the waterfront you see here (with a couple of minor and small exceptions) has a pedestrian/bike path along it.

http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=49...,0.154324&z=13

Also keep in mind that the city of Calgary is a much larger area than the city of Vancouver. So if we wanted to consider all of the cities that together make Metro Vancouver, I wouldn't be surprised if our total length of bike paths to be similar, if not greater than Calgary's.

[Canadian Mind]

I agree, and I think Vancouver is a very car-heavy city. Needs more pickup trucks and more pickup freindly parking spaces (Can't find anywhere to park downtown in the family crew cab with an 8 foot box).

[raggedy13]

I would love to see some of our alleys cleaned up and repurposed as small-scale retail and pedestrian zones. Blood Alley has got the ball rolling with 2 restaurants but still has a long way to go.

[Metro-One]

Thank you, I said that a page ago and no one seemed to notice. Alleys is where many Asian / European cities make their pedestrian walkways / markets. Also, since they are more narrow, they are much easier to shield from the weather, such as rain and snow, via canopies.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Delirium

I find Vancouver drivers to be the most strung out of any canadian city i've lived in. people here really freak out if A) you run a yellow or <gasp>red light B) your car is partially blocking an intersection C) insist on honking the horn for over a minute if god forbid you did something that's not within the law.

Well considering a red light means stop. I think people do have a right to get pissed off when someone runs a red light.

I was almost hit on my bicycle last weekend when someone drove right through a red light. Missed me by about a foot while they were doing at least 50-60 km/h. And yes I was pissed.


As for the city being car or pedestrian friendly. I'd say we aren't 100% car friendly nor are we 100% pedestrian friendly. Some areas lean more one way than the other and some areas are the reverse.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I'd say most of the frusteration and road rage in Vancouver comes from the fact that you really don't ever get anywhere fast, at least not during the day. When you feel like you're wasting your time everything is a piss off.

When I used to drive, although I don't anymore cause I was getting way too pissed off about it.

The congestion itself didn't really bother me. What did bother me is a driver's assumption that they are above everyone else and thus can do what ever they feel like.

Examples, Drivers who come to a red light with no left turn lane. Light goes green they pull forward than put on the left turn signal. Drivers who try and jump queues and get in at the last moment. Drivers who don't know how to merge. Drivers who don't go when they should but go when they shouldn't. Drivers who drive too fast or too slow for the area or conditions.