HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2013, 11:16 AM
Rational Plan3 Rational Plan3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 94
Sorry, this gut has too many fanboys who somehow think his knowledge in building discreet products translates to a massive infrastructure project.

Where are the patents for new superconductors? revolutionary new construction techniques? How about a 10 mile test track to demonstrate the concept? Something other than vapourware.

Is this anything other than some anti HSR spoiler operation?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2013, 12:55 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 43,226
He could come up with a hydrogen collider concept and shoot of passengers close to the speed of light in a closed loop.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2013, 9:44 PM
Arquitect's Avatar
Arquitect Arquitect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 500
Updated vision of Hyperloop published:

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/public-tra...portation.html





Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2013, 11:40 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Exhale solutions.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 4,594
This is about as "fantastic" as PRT and flying cars. If a case study of the perfect example of lopsided cost-benefit were ever found, this would be it.

Unfortunately this is the type of pie-in-sky vision that laymen futurists like to salivate over while much needed popular support for much more practical, affordable and beneficial modes like conventional and proven HSR gets sidelined. It reminds me of the Nietzsche concept of "always being pregnant with the future."
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener.

For me it can be reduced to this: For every personal freedom we gained from the automobile, we lost in social cohesion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2013, 11:52 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Insertoronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,194
I'm seriously doubtful of that cost. Especially since he is not considering development costs. I feel the concrete supports alone for 500km (meaning 5,000 supports) would cost $4 billion. Never mind the stations, inevitable tunnelling required to reach the downtown core of the cities, solar panels, batteries, tubes, motors, matinence yards (probably a billion alone for that), etc. Often with infrastructure projects is when they are first proposed they are really cheap, then as design progresses and they realize what actually needs to be done to get the project to work, costs skyrocket. I love the concept, but I have problems with it being $4 billion dollars. I have a feeling that final project costs would be closer to $40 billion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 12:13 AM
blackcat23's Avatar
blackcat23 blackcat23 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,363
The route he outlined doesn't even make it into the core of Los Angeles. Stops way out in Sylmar, by the look of things.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 8:05 AM
LMich's Avatar
LMich LMich is online now
Midwest Moderator - Editor
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Big Mitten
Posts: 30,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
This is about as "fantastic" as PRT and flying cars. If a case study of the perfect example of lopsided cost-benefit were ever found, this would be it.

Unfortunately this is the type of pie-in-sky vision that laymen futurists like to salivate over while much needed popular support for much more practical, affordable and beneficial modes like conventional and proven HSR gets sidelined. It reminds me of the Nietzsche concept of "always being pregnant with the future."
THIS one billion times.

But, Elon gets his press, and really, that's all that matters to him.
__________________
Where the trees are the right height
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 6:06 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 43,226
Even if it were feasible the US, would be one of the last places it would end up getting built anyway.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 9:50 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
atomic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 12,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan3 View Post
Is this anything other than some anti HSR spoiler operation?
I think this is key. It's pretty clear to me that Elon Musk doesn't like CAHSR and is out to kill it by casting doubt.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 10:02 PM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 20,106
I like Elon, he's a big thinker.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 10:05 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,312
at least the guy that came up with and hyped the hell out of the previous transportation miracle actually followed thru and built the segway. and they turned out to be fairly popular.

but this guy? i got a transformative transit idea, oh but i'm too busy you do it. sheesh gimme a break.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 10:23 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Skyscraper Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 7,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat23 View Post
The route he outlined doesn't even make it into the core of Los Angeles. Stops way out in Sylmar, by the look of things.
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 12:46 AM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 486
I've been lurking this board forever, but I can't remember the last time I ever posted. However this idea has me so mad I just couldn't let it go. As an engineer the impracticality of his idea is just plain as day. Sure, it's not impossible, but the cost would be more like 250 Billion and decades, not 6 Billion or whatever he is trying to say now. This would be a "man on the moon" type of feat. High speed rail already exists and is more than good enough for the application at hand. Who ever really NEEDS to be somewhere RIGHT NOW and can't wait a few hours for a train or a plane? Maybe a billionaire's time like Elon Musk is worth the expense, but there is no need for 99.9% of the population to get somewhere so fast for this kind of price tag.

As for Elon Musk, I don't want to take away from any of his accomplishments, but the companies he runs are very niche markets and receive huge amounts of government backing. A transportation project is something that has to appeal to the masses and where local governments will fight you tooth and nail, not give you huge tax subsidies and incentives.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to openly wonder if this isn't just intended to sabotage the current high speed rail plans. Even if that isn't the case I fear that is all that will actually come of this. I have no problem with dreaming big, but people need to stop trying to compare one mans dream with the current technological reality. Of course dreams are always better, but we cannot, "let the perfect be the enemy of the good" in this case. The high speed rail, as expensive and flawed as it is, presents the best option for tying California and the North East Corridor together.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 2:59 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
Insertoronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,194
I completely agree, except with your comment about his current companies being niche.

Ever heard of Paypal by chance?

And the Tesla Model S has quickly become the Top selling luxury sedan on the market, projected to be pumping out 40,000 vehicles this year. With the Model X, they are expecting to bring that up to 70,000.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 3:07 AM
texcolo's Avatar
texcolo texcolo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Posts: 4,230
Three words:

Emergency Egress Issues.
__________________
"I am literally grasping at straws." - Bob Belcher
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 7:17 PM
Yankee's Avatar
Yankee Yankee is offline
Martian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: District of Columbia
Posts: 748
If he's right about how cheap and fast the system will be, this has the potential the change the world more than the Internet did. He's saying LA to SF in 35 mins for $20, and it's only 35 mins because the capsules won't be able to reach their full potential speeds. For longer distances like NY to LA, he's saying 1 hour if I'm not mistaken. That's insane.

Just like the Internet made the location of information meaningless, by which I mean whether a server or a person is in Germany, Japan or South America it doesn't matter, I can connect to it / them instantly, this will have a similar effect for actual physical locations. If I can get from Nebraska to New York in half an hour, I can literally commute 1,500 miles daily if it's self-sustaining. Imagine if this gets actual funding, like DOD funding in the future and we get the equivalent of an interstate system, you can go anywhere in the country in an hour or less. Where you live will be almost meaningless. Think about what this will do to real estate markets or even the traditional city structure. You thought Los Angeles was decentralized... Of course I'm talking about science fiction, but if its truly this miraculous, cheap and self-sustaining, and there is HUGE demand for it after the initial segment is built, they'll find the money no problem.
__________________
Before one surrenders to the hands of destiny one might consider the power of the human spirit and the force that lies in one's own free will.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 7:40 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Skyscraper Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 7,926
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 3:32 AM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 43,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
If I can get from Nebraska to New York in half an hour, I can literally commute 1,500 miles daily if it's self-sustaining.
So long as an unlimited number of people can do the same on the same route at the same time like the internet, or at least have the capacity to transport all that need to.

Maybe this would be more likely to get built if oil were sent at high speeds through it as well.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2014, 6:11 AM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 43,226
These Dreamers Are Actually Making Progress Building Elon’s Hyperloop

Read More: http://www.wired.com/2014/12/jumpsta...oop-elon-musk/

Quote:
.....

Fortunately for futurists and people who enjoy picking apart complicated plans, an El Segundo, California-based startup has taken Musk up on his challenge to develop and build the Hyperloop. JumpStartFund combines elements of crowdfunding and crowd-sourcing—bringing money and ideas in from all over the place—to take ambitious ideas and move them toward reality.

- The team is split into working groups, based on their interests and skills, that cover various aspects of the massive project, including route planning, capsule design, and cost analysis. They work mostly over email, with weekly discussions of their progress. Hierarchy is minimal, but leaders have naturally emerged, says Ahlborn. And if a decision needs to be made, as CEO, he makes the call. --- A lot of the work is being done by 25 UCLA students. The school’s SUPRASTUDIO design and architecture program partnered with JumpStartFund, and now the students are working on all the design solutions the new transit system would require.

- Ahlborn doesn’t expect to have the technical feasibility study finished until mid-2015, but he decided to show off what his team has done so far to coincide with the midterm break of the design group at UCLA. So far, the team has made progress in three main areas: the capsules, the stations, and the route. Here’s what we know so far about the Hyperloop JumpStartFund wants to build.

- The group working on finding a suitable route used algorithms that account for things like existing buildings, roads, and geography, and optimize the path for speed and comfort. That means keeping the line as straight as possible. Like in a plane, high speeds alone don’t lead to nausea, but if you start turning, you feel the g-forces. The route won’t be completely smooth, Ahlborn says, but contrary to the claim of one transportation blogger, “I don’t think it’s a barf ride.”

- Musk’s proposed Hyperloop route running from San Francisco to Los Angeles came under a lot of criticism: What about earthquakes? Right of way? Crossing the San Francisco Bay? How will you avoid the political struggles that have made the region’s in-development high-speed rail system something of a punch line? Ahlborn has the answer: Pick a different route. Los Angeles to Las Vegas is being considered, as are other parts of the US and the world. “We would love to see LA to San Francisco, but our primary goal is to build the Hyperloop.” Yes, there are political hurdles. But not everywhere. Not in Dubai.

- The UCLA students working on potential routes imagine networks criss-crossing the country, as well as Europe and Asia. This is where things get fanciful: we’re at least 10 years away from a commercially viable Hyperloop, and the idea of a national network is hard to imagine. They tacked on the idea of a “Mini Hyperloop,” which would offer shorter routes into and around cities.

- As the UCLA students imagine it, a passenger would arrive at a station and drop her luggage off with a Kiva robot (the kind Amazon uses in its warehouse). She would pass through security on what seems to be a moving sidewalk going under a metal detector, an idea that sounds tricky when you consider how often people in airports forget to take coins or various terrifying objects out of their pockets. But once through, she would be able to kill time in the lobby doing some shopping, grabbing a bite, using the bathroom, or renting a tablet for the trip. Then she heads to her platform, gets in her assigned seat, and is whisked away.

- So JumpStartFund and the UCLA students have made good progress, but there’s a lot to figure out before anyone gets to tackle the really fun parts like testing, permitting, and construction. Ahlborn says the questions of how to build the low-pressure tube and the pylons that support it have mostly been solved, and creating the capsules shouldn’t be too tricky. The hard part is moving the capsules within the tube, and seeing how fast they can go. To eliminate friction in the tube, Musk proposed using a compressor to create a pocket of air under the capsule. That’s the cheapest approach, Ahlborn says, but it has its drawbacks. His team is looking at the possibility of using magnetic levitation and other alternatives. “We want to find the best possible way to make this work.”

.....



__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2015, 11:38 PM
Hatman's Avatar
Hatman Hatman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 990
We have a whole thread on this Hyperloop thing and no one has posted this piece of news yet? I mean, something's actually getting built now!

Elon Musk Will Build A Hyperloop Track For Ultra-High Speed Transport Tests
Quote:
Oh, you thought Elon Musk had moved on past the whole Hyperloop thing? That ultra high-speed transportation system he first started talking about back in 2013?

That’s understandable. It’s been a while since he’s said much about it.

He’s still thinking about it, though. In fact, he’s just committed to building a test track for the concept.
Red the rest here: Link

The track will be 5 miles long, so no full-speed testing yet.
Elon's not actually going to design the pod, though; instead he's building just the tube so that other people can test their own pods.

Also, that map in the post above me makes no sense. How did they determine those routes? Certainly not based on any actual traffic patterns.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:14 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.