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  #1621  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 6:34 AM
edluva edluva is offline
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why do you think LA will look that different by 2020 - that's less than 9 years from now. not that much will change.
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  #1622  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 8:06 AM
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why do you think LA will look that different by 2020 - that's less than 9 years from now. not that much will change.
with 7 or 8 new lines completed by then, LA may be close to if not passing 1,000,000 daily boardings. that would be a 3 fold increase of people using transit in the city. it may not look that drastically different from today at that point, but it will be heading in that direction, which will be more urban, transit oriented and denser than today. I think the future of Urban LA looks mostly like Hollywood and the surrounding streets, 4 - 6 story multiunits.
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  #1623  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 3:06 PM
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with 7 or 8 new lines completed by then, LA may be close to if not passing 1,000,000 daily boardings. that would be a 3 fold increase of people using transit in the city. it may not look that drastically different from today at that point, but it will be heading in that direction, which will be more urban, transit oriented and denser than today. I think the future of Urban LA looks mostly like Hollywood and the surrounding streets, 4 - 6 story multiunits.
7 or 8? Hah. More like three to four. I don't think there are 7 or 8 lines even far enough in the planning stages right now. It will be another ten years before 7-8 lines have been added to the Metro system.
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  #1624  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 5:41 PM
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7 or 8? Hah. More like three to four. I don't think there are 7 or 8 lines even far enough in the planning stages right now. It will be another ten years before 7-8 lines have been added to the Metro system.

There are already 4 lines that are under construction or will be in the next couple months. With 30/10, we will get the DC, the Wilshire Subway, another Gold Line extension, 2 green line extensions, santa ana line and a few other BRTs...
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  #1625  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 7:58 PM
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There are already 4 lines that are under construction or will be in the next couple months. With 30/10, we will get the DC, the Wilshire Subway, another Gold Line extension, 2 green line extensions, santa ana line and a few other BRTs...
No LASF. As much as I HOPE...that's not true.

When Antonio gets termed out in 2013, we'll have 5 lines under construction (Crenshaw, Expo Phase II, Purple Line to Fairfax (built in phases), Gold Line to Asuza and Downtown Connector). Those are all in the FEIR or construction phase today. Those projects have money dedicated in 2010s via Measure R.

Right now, America Fast Forward has not passed..especially with this Tea Party climate. We'll have to rely on Measure R funding schedule. Those other projects (i.e. Green Line extensions) are not funded until the 2020s. Santa Ana Line has no Alternative Analysis competed at this time and your Eastside gold Line Extension is also a good 10 years off via Measure R timetable.

But, anyways, the 2010's will probably be the best decade of transit in LA as we'll have 5 grand openings within this decade...compared to no more than 2 per decade as previously.
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  #1626  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
with 7 or 8 new lines completed by then, LA may be close to if not passing 1,000,000 daily boardings. that would be a 3 fold increase of people using transit in the city. it may not look that drastically different from today at that point, but it will be heading in that direction, which will be more urban, transit oriented and denser than today. I think the future of Urban LA looks mostly like Hollywood and the surrounding streets, 4 - 6 story multiunits.
Metro already has 1.4 million daily ridership. This doesn't include of course all the other local bus agencies or metrolink.

I know you probably meant exclusively rail, but I think the fact that a metro's busses are boarded a million times a day more than justifies their inclusion as legitimate urban transit. (But I am fully behind all the rail building)
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  #1627  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2011, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim View Post
No LASF. As much as I HOPE...that's not true.

When Antonio gets termed out in 2013, we'll have 5 lines under construction (Crenshaw, Expo Phase II, Purple Line to Fairfax (built in phases), Gold Line to Asuza and Downtown Connector). Those are all in the FEIR or construction phase today. Those projects have money dedicated in 2010s via Measure R.

Right now, America Fast Forward has not passed..especially with this Tea Party climate. We'll have to rely on Measure R funding schedule. Those other projects (i.e. Green Line extensions) are not funded until the 2020s. Santa Ana Line has no Alternative Analysis competed at this time and your Eastside gold Line Extension is also a good 10 years off via Measure R timetable.

But, anyways, the 2010's will probably be the best decade of transit in LA as we'll have 5 grand openings within this decade...compared to no more than 2 per decade as previously.
i guess im just overly optimistic! Certainly, these five lines are very important, but hopefully we can get funding for the rest as well.

DJM19, i was just talking about rail ridership, but yes, the million plus on the buses is obviously very impressive and important.
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  #1628  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2011, 5:10 AM
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The Harbor Subdivision + direct connection to LAX (1 or 2 stations within the terminals) is what I am holding out for. No matter what LA County looks like by 2020, it will be considered woefully incomplete in my mind until the above happens. A direct connection between the airport and the city transit hub is damn near obligatory for both Angelenos and out-of-towners to truly feel like LA has a mature and useful transit system. Being able to take the rail from LAX is pretty much the only way you can challenge people's 60+ year old perceptions about car-obsessed LA.
It probably makes sense to use the Union Station-LAX segment of the Harbor Sub. ROW for Metrolink service, perhaps even with a station in South LA (Vermont Ave would be a good location, with the possibility future Red Line Vermont corridor station nearby).

But all this is if (a big if) certain politicians don't go apeshit and play the "racist" card.
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  #1629  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2011, 5:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
i guess im just overly optimistic! Certainly, these five lines are very important, but hopefully we can get funding for the rest as well.

DJM19, i was just talking about rail ridership, but yes, the million plus on the buses is obviously very impressive and important.
Good lord I hope you aren't. I've just about had it with the insanity in Congress these days, mainly in the House of Rep.
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  #1630  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2011, 7:39 AM
edluva edluva is offline
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Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim View Post
No LASF. As much as I HOPE...that's not true.

When Antonio gets termed out in 2013, we'll have 5 lines under construction (Crenshaw, Expo Phase II, Purple Line to Fairfax (built in phases), Gold Line to Asuza and Downtown Connector). ...

But, anyways, the 2010's will probably be the best decade of transit in LA as we'll have 5 grand openings within this decade...compared to no more than 2 per decade as previously.

yeah, and we'll really have essentially 3 urban lines to speak of (i wouldn't consider downtown connector a proper "line"). gold to azusa may as well not exist - do we really even need to mention it?

we wouldn't hit 1 million weekday boardings by 2020 even if all the 30/10 slated projects were completed two decades ago, and even if the subway hit the beach.

and some of you guys speak as though the urban fabric will magically change the day after each rail project's ribbon cutting takes place. you do realize that ridership, even on the most promising of lines, takes time to build, and that any positive change in real estate development will reflect a gradual and decades long shift in demand as the product of changing attitudes and permissive zoning changes?

your highly connected and urban LA will yet be decades in the making. the opening of these lines in the next couple decades will merely be the start of movement in that direction.

Last edited by edluva; Sep 14, 2011 at 7:53 AM.
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  #1631  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2011, 5:43 AM
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Originally Posted by edluva View Post
yeah, and we'll really have essentially 3 urban lines to speak of (i wouldn't consider downtown connector a proper "line"). gold to azusa may as well not exist - do we really even need to mention it?

we wouldn't hit 1 million weekday boardings by 2020 even if all the 30/10 slated projects were completed two decades ago, and even if the subway hit the beach.

and some of you guys speak as though the urban fabric will magically change the day after each rail project's ribbon cutting takes place. you do realize that ridership, even on the most promising of lines, takes time to build, and that any positive change in real estate development will reflect a gradual and decades long shift in demand as the product of changing attitudes and permissive zoning changes?

your highly connected and urban LA will yet be decades in the making. the opening of these lines in the next couple decades will merely be the start of movement in that direction.
Tis true. Even the Washington Metro, which is one of the best Metros in North America, only hovers around 900,000 boarding per day. I don't suspect we will hit that magic One Million until 2030 at the earliest. Even with the 30/10 projects, there is sooooo much more to do. However, at least in terms of the U.S., L.A. will certainly be above the rest of the 'competition',and is certainly stepping in the right direction much quicker then any other U.S. city (except for maybe Honolulu, who just recently broke ground on a fully grade-separated new system).
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  #1632  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2011, 10:59 AM
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Edluva is right on one thing: 30/10 is just the beginning. I can think of enough projects on the menu to merit a Measure R II, or even a Measure R III.
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  #1633  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2011, 5:16 PM
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Edluva is right on one thing: 30/10 is just the beginning. I can think of enough projects on the menu to merit a Measure R II, or even a Measure R III.
That'll be a tough sell for a super-majority vote until the tax increase from the first Measure R expires.
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  #1634  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2011, 5:33 PM
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That'll be a tough sell for a super-majority vote until the tax increase from the first Measure R expires.
This is probably correct but there is an article in today's SF Chronicle about a proposal to create a 10-cent regional gas tax in the Bay Area. If Southern California residents see significant results and improvements from Measure R, such a strategy might be possible in the LA region.


Residents to be polled about regional gas tax
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ed=rss.bayarea
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  #1635  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2011, 9:57 PM
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That'll be a tough sell for a super-majority vote until the tax increase from the first Measure R expires.
I think that even with a super-majority vote, a Measure R 2.0 will be an easy sell once the citizens of LA County start seeing completed Measure R projects (Expo line to Santa Monica, Downtown Regional Connector, Green Line to LAX). As long as Metro is proving to the voters that their tax dollars are going towards rail lines that they can actually ride, more funding will come.

Even though Measure R is a 30 year sales tax, I can see another round of transit funding voted on by the end of this decade.
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  #1636  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2011, 1:18 AM
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One major reason why Measure R was so successful in getting the votes it did, I think, is because of it had two "anchor" projects: The Westside Subway extension and the Regional Connector.

If a Measure R II is to have something similar, I can see projects things like a Purple Line Whittier Extension and Silver Line LRT serving as attention grabbers.

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That'll be a tough sell for a super-majority vote until the tax increase from the first Measure R expires.
Well right now, yeah, of course. But ten years from now, when this current economic downturn will probably be completely behind us (perhaps even the housing crisis), who's to say the politics of today won't seismically shift back in the favor of more transit projects, mainly for the reason XtremeDave brought out?
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  #1637  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2011, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
One major reason why Measure R was so successful in getting the votes it did, I think, is because of it had two "anchor" projects: The Westside Subway extension and the Regional Connector.

If a Measure R II is to have something similar, I can see projects things like a Purple Line Whittier Extension and Silver Line LRT serving as attention grabbers.
Yes, voter complacency is the only potential issue -- "We already have our pork! Screw everyone else!"

I don't view it as an issue at all. For starters, the sales tax went down a percentage point this summer. So in essence, another transit tax measure would bring the sales tax back to where it was pre-Measure R (9.25%). In my mind, Measure R 2.0 would be even easier to pass because demand for rail only increases once you have a basic network in place. Additional extensions benefit the whole, rather than just those who have direct access. The projects in Measure R 2.0 would be even more mouth-watering:

Central LA
Crenshaw Corridor extension to West Hollywood/Hollywood

Westside
Purple Line extension to Santa Monica

South LA
Vermont Corridor Subway

South Bay
Green Line extension to San Pedro or Long Beach

San Fernando Valley
I-405 Corridor extension(s) to LAX and/or San Fernando

San Gabriel Valley
Red/Purple Line extension to Whittier
Gold Line Foothill Extension Phase 2B

Gateway Cities
Green Line extension to Norwalk

...

I couldn't figure out what was best for Glendale/Burbank, but the total cost of those 7 projects would probably exceed the amount we are currently allocating toward transit under Measure R ($14 billion). We'd have to stress quality over quantity with this one.

I'm hoping we can get Measure R 2.0 on the 2016 ballot. All of the Measure R projects should be under construction by 2015, or at least they should be under 30/10.
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Last edited by Quixote; Sep 18, 2011 at 12:39 AM.
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  #1638  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2011, 12:57 AM
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Question

I haven't been keeping up and don't feel like reading through a bunch of posts, but can someone please tell me when the Expo Line is going to open????
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  #1639  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2011, 1:24 AM
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I haven't been keeping up and don't feel like reading through a bunch of posts, but can someone please tell me when the Expo Line is going to open????
To La Cienega: November 2011
(Farmdale Station: March 2012)
To Culver City: March 2012
To Santa Monica: Early 2015
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  #1640  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2011, 8:44 AM
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I couldn't figure out what was best for Glendale/Burbank, but the total cost of those 7 projects would probably exceed the amount we are currently allocating toward transit under Measure R ($14 billion).
Measure R is expected to bring in $40 billion over the 30 years, which is divided between road and rail projects. In 2020, could it be feasible to allocate a much larger share of Measure R 2.0 funds to transit and away from roads? $30 billion or more for transit projects sounds great.

I wouldn't mind seeing some Metrolink upgrades in this next round of funding. Double tracking as much of the lines in LA County as possible would allow for increased frequencies (minimum 30 min service all day), bringing in more riders for the new Metro Rail lines.
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