Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[jrdtown]

Archetype, 220 E 1st Ave
Photos by me, today.

[Changing City]

Sorry Warren, just a bit late with this...

"The province announced a long-awaited elementary school is coming to Vancouver's Olympic Village neighbourhood nearly 17 years since a site was first chosen and four years after the B.C. NDP's promise of a fast-tracked process.

At a news conference Friday, Education Minister Rachna Singh announced funding of $150 million to build the Olympic Village school, which will welcome 630 students in 2029."

CBC

[Migrant_Coconut]

Singh also announced $15 million in funding to expand the Henry Hudson Elementary school project, which is currently undergoing seismic upgrades, to create space for 145 more students.

"Both these investments will help address the enrolment growth that these neighbourhoods are facing," she said.

I take it back Warren, they really are just ducking slow.

[WarrenC12]

Well, I'm glad they are deciding to make OV school one of the larger elementary schools in Vancouver. It will still be full day 1. And 2029... that's a couple elections away. Fool me once and all that.

As for HH, that's a well needed expansion but I wonder how they will accomplish that for $15M at this stage of the project. 145 students is a lot... like 6 more classes? Portables?

[MalcolmTucker]

There has got to be a better way to deliver these multiple government interacting projects. VSB and the City didn’t seem to have any sense of urgency. And the province had no mechanism to make them go faster.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

There has got to be a better way to deliver these multiple government interacting projects. VSB and the City didn’t seem to have any sense of urgency. And the province had no mechanism to make them go faster.

That's a different story to what has been said for years. The province has been unwilling to fund any new schools in Vancouver (other than seismic replacements or rebuilds) because the VSB has spare capacity within the system, and for many years refused to close any existing schools. That's finally changed, a bit, although there's still spare capacity in some parts of the city. The province now seems willing to add capacity where the demand is located, but that's a recent change in policy. The City hasn't put up any barriers to getting the school developed, as far as anything I've seen published suggests. They've reserved the site for over 20 years.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's a different story to what has been said for years. The province has been unwilling to fund any new schools in Vancouver (other than seismic replacements or rebuilds) because the VSB has spare capacity within the system, and for many years refused to close any existing schools. That's finally changed, a bit, although there's still spare capacity in some parts of the city. The province now seems willing to add capacity where the demand is located, but that's a recent change in policy. The City hasn't put up any barriers to getting the school developed, as far as anything I've seen published suggests. They've reserved the site for over 20 years.

NDP MLA said the lease negotiations took a long time

“It takes a long time because it’s a complex thing to build a school,” said Brenda Bailey, NDP MLA for Vancouver-False Creek.

“For example, the negotiations between the City (of Vancouver) and the Vancouver School Board for that lease took quite a long time.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/10278931/...ver-no-school/

[Migrant_Coconut]

inb4 Ken Sim tries to scrap the School Board too.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's a different story to what has been said for years. The province has been unwilling to fund any new schools in Vancouver (other than seismic replacements or rebuilds) because the VSB has spare capacity within the system, and for many years refused to close any existing schools. That's finally changed, a bit, although there's still spare capacity in some parts of the city. The province now seems willing to add capacity where the demand is located, but that's a recent change in policy. The City hasn't put up any barriers to getting the school developed, as far as anything I've seen published suggests. They've reserved the site for over 20 years.

The VSB planned to conclude the lease agreement in 2020, but that took until 2021. Then they took forever to nail down a scope and estimate even missing this budget's normal capital cycle (submissions to the regular provincial capital process are in July every year).

And yeah, isn't VSB's refusal to align school capacity with demand a barrier? There aren't unlimited resources to build, and VSB would struggle to fund a new school if they attempted to keep running far below capacity ones.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

inb4 Ken Sim tries to scrap the School Board too.

A couple provinces have killed their school boards. In others, they're not responsible for building new schools, it is all the province's infrastructure arm.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

There has got to be a better way to deliver these multiple government interacting projects. VSB and the City didn’t seem to have any sense of urgency. And the province had no mechanism to make them go faster.

As others have mentioned I think this is a bit backwards.

City supplies the land, it has been set aside for years.

Province provides the money. They can do this at any time.

VSB is the Province's whipping boy. They want VSB to close other schools and outrage parents to meet "enrollment projections" which seem to be terrible estimates anyway.

[WarrenC12]

Closing existing schools is a dumb idea. Especially now that anywhere can be upzoned.

The Province can fire the school board and replace them at anytime. It has been done in the recent past:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ired-1.3808674

I'm no fan of the VSB (much like the PB) but they have the most limited amount of power of any group. To pin all them on them is laughable.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Closing existing schools is a dumb idea. Especially now that anywhere can be upzoned.

The Province can fire the school board and replace them at anytime. It has been done in the recent past:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ired-1.3808674

I'm no fan of the VSB (much like the PB) but they have the most limited amount of power of any group. To pin all them on them is laughable.

They missed two process deadlines on this project alone since 2019 that we know of from public documents, delaying it by a year each time.



While the province could eliminate or fire them for this problem, that might just be an over reaction.


If the province had just thrown the cost estimates then available into the budget in 2021, the project would now be 2 years late and 200% over budget.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

They missed two process deadlines on this project alone since 2019 that we know of from public documents, delaying it by a year each time.



While the province could eliminate or fire them for this problem, that might just be an over reaction.


If the province had just thrown the cost estimates then available into the budget in 2021, the project would now be 2 years late and 200% over budget.

The Province (Horgan himself in fact) stood on the land and promised to "Fast Track" it during the 2020 election. Case closed in my mind.

And why did they miss those "process deadlines". They are given very difficult choices as I mentioned. The schools up for closure would anger hundreds of parents, and solve nothing long term. They are given the shit work and they push back on it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The Province (Horgan himself in fact) stood on the land and promised to "Fast Track" it during the 2020 election. Case closed in my mind.

And why did they miss those "process deadlines". They are given very difficult choices as I mentioned. The schools up for closure would anger hundreds of parents, and solve nothing long term. They are given the shit work and they push back on it.

The second process deadline failure was not completing design early enough to get to cost estimates for the capital planning process.

The first was not concluding a lease for the site from the city.

At no point in the process could the province have backed up a dump truck full of money and construction would have started soon after.

Both of those delays are 100% in the VSB's hands.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The second process deadline failure was not completing design early enough to get to cost estimates for the capital planning process.

The first was not concluding a lease for the site from the city.

At no point in the process could the province have backed up a dump truck full of money and construction would have started soon after.

Both of those delays are 100% in the VSB's hands.

It just sounds like you're trying to absolve the Province. They can make things happen if there's political will. They won the riding and put this file at the bottom of the pile.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It just sounds like you're trying to absolve the Province. They can make things happen if there's political will. They won the riding and put this file at the bottom of the pile.

They can't even force whatever school board in Surrey to get enough school projects ready to approve, and those are swing seats!
I think you over estimate the ability of the province to forge ahead without local partners.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

VSB is the Province's whipping boy. They want VSB to close other schools and outrage parents to meet "enrollment projections" which seem to be terrible estimates anyway.

QE Annex would suggest otherwise - that it's actually West Side Karens holding back the VSB/province for the sake of seventy students. They've been wanting to get rid of that one for several decades now.

[GMD]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

QE Annex would suggest otherwise - that it's actually West Side Karens holding back the VSB/province for the sake of seventy students. They've been wanting to get rid of that one for several decades now.

I wish that instead of trying to close the undercapacity schools, the province would instead just override the city and upzone the land around the schools. Just say that any property within 500m of an undercapacity school can build up to 6 stories by right, as long as 10% of units are sold to someone with school age children who promises to send them to the local school. Units could be allocated to teachers/custodians/etc as well.

Problem(s) solved.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

QE Annex would suggest otherwise - that it's actually West Side Karens holding back the VSB/province for the sake of seventy students. They've been wanting to get rid of that one for several decades now.

What about that article disproves what I'm saying?

It proves my point. The VSB was put in the difficult spot of closing the school and the parents sued them.

Enrollment estimates are notoriously bad. The City is going to grow but school aged kids will decline?