River District (East Fraserlands) | u/c

[city-dweller]

For the most part this project looks awesome. I last looked in on it when the charettes where taking place. Excellent planning of building form, mix-use zoning, LEED standards, etc... What concerns me as others have mentioned is the transit component. I see plenty of transit potential and yes, they are extending some of the existing (bus) routes and provisions for future 'rapid' transit. My issue is the amount of infrastructure for cars. I am just looking over the numbers so I will get back to you on parking spaces at grade and below. I am (maybe the only one) thinking this would be an opportunity to build minimal (free?) car dependent development. Don't want to sound too down on the project, but take the number of units for the entire development and apply a (eg 10%) transit ridership rate. The difference is a lot of more cars on the Vancouver streets. I believe with the housing market and gas prices so high there would be a market for a transit/bicycle/walk oriented neighborhood.

(forgive me for not having more project specific points/examples this time)

[deasine]

No that's perfectly understandable... this development is pretty isolated in vancouver and it's sort of in the middle of no-where... at least at the moment.

[city-dweller]

Okay, I have read through the entire ODP (much better than tv ) and updates posted on this thread to update my own post.
The EFL ODP has a lot of supportive language for lower car component:

2.2.14
A clear hierarchy of movement is to emphasize walking, cycling, transit, and goods movement, and to provide for reasonable vehicle access but is to discourage through traffic from shortcutting through neighbourhoods.

4.6
The access and movement network is to accommodate all modes of transportation, and to give priority to walking, cycling, transit, and goods movement, while providing reasonable vehicle access, with the aim of maximizing non-automobile trips as stated in the City of Vancouver Transportation Plan, adopted by Council in May 1997.

4.5.9
To avoid the need for large surface parking lots, parking is to be on the street, underground, or in small parking courts to the rear of street wall buildings.

5.1.7
Each re-zoning is to include the:
(a)
further design of the movement network to reflect the city’s transportation priorities which, in descending order of importance, are pedestrians, bicycles, transit, goods movement, and automobiles; and
(b)
developing and implementing a comprehensive transportation demand managementstrategy aimed at minimizing automobile trips from the development, and maximizing use of sustainable modes of transport such as walking, cycling, and use of transit through measures such as a travel plan, car sharing, community transit passes, way-finding signage, comfortable and safe bus stop design, and innovative parking solutions.

In summary, the ODP outlines a lower priority for resources, space, and access for cars. This would fit my idea of ‘building a minimal car dependent development’. The language sounds good. I then read jlousa’s updates. I found issue of how they will reconcile the ODP goals (above) with Section 7 of http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/ctyc...nts/p7appa.pdf parking spot requirements. 13,000+ new residents (all phases complete) and limited surface space for parking indicates expensive underground. If someone else who has read that section could indicate if this is less/same/more than usual city requirements.

[city-dweller]

Link doesn't appear to work. Use original posted link.

[SpongeG]

when is it going to start?

drove through marine way last night

[city-dweller]

Rezoning is currently underway. After that the development permit is needed and then the building permit.

[jlousa]

Construction of Phase one is set for 2009. So pretty soon, the zoning is taken care of as far as I know, they just changed the scope of it, phase 1 will be much larger and phase 2 smaller, the total hasn't changed. Could be interesting timing if we get the expected slowdown.

[city-dweller]

I have been interested to how the EFL development will affect traffic on Marine way. The number of access points for cars to turn off(on) Marine way could back up traffic. So, back to the ODP.
The good news:
EFL ODP 3.5.2 h: "such uses, and their parking lots, fronting on or accessed directly from Marine Way, are not permissible"

This refers to most commercial ventures. This good because everyone hates to get stuck behind someone who forgets to their signal on until the last minute.

The other news:
EFL ODP 3.5.2 i: "access to office and other non-retail stores from marine way is permissable"

Wouldn't this just mean more people turning off and on Marine Way during rush hour?

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Construction of Phase one is set for 2009. So pretty soon, the zoning is taken care of as far as I know, they just changed the scope of it, phase 1 will be much larger and phase 2 smaller, the total hasn't changed. Could be interesting timing if we get the expected slowdown.

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if this would affect how quickly the neighborhood gets built out. Pretty hard to sell pre-sales in a declining market.

[deasine]

That could be a problem... but things are only a little slow now... who knows after a few months things could change dramatically (although I doubt it). But this is one of the few developments in the COV where it's much more affordable than compared to other developments. It's such a nice peaceful area too =)

[SpongeG]

I guess that what seems in the middle of nowhere shopping centre will make more sense now

[flight_from_kamakura]

re: the market slowdown. i'm not sure where these are going to start, but i had lunch with a realtor friend of mine today, and he seemed quite bullish on some of the cheaper suburban-style stuff like this and collingwood. apparently, there's still a lot of demand for the right places in the 300s.

that said, with all the uncertainty, i bet the developers sit on this for a couple years to work on some surer projects, and possibly to bring more people on board to spread the risk around a bit more if things don't appear set to improve/not decline in the medium term.

[jlousa]

I wouldn't count on the much more affordable aspect.

[SpongeG]

i am sure a lot of people will jump at the chance to move out of abbotsford or langley if they can get something cheaper in vancouver - finally

[northwest2k]

I took a drive past this place this morning. They were building houses in the bottom right section next to Boundary Road. Don't know if they'll be using them as show rooms/realty office or if they'll even be staying on site.

[AgentWill]

I've been watching this project for some time with a serious personal interest in it. Now, with the slow down, will it go forward? Sure it will. The big question is how much will the places list for and what will the added quantity of homes do to values in the immediate region. As a buyer I'm hoping to see something attractive and in the 1000 sq.ft. three bedroom range and costing no more than the mid 3s. If not then it's a deal breaker to move my family out there. I bet a lot of people will be thinking the same thing.

[jlousa]

3br 1000sqft in Vancouver (even that location) you are looking at 500K and up. Sorry to break it to you. I'd be surprised if they offer a 2bd for mid 300's I'd wager that the 2bds will start at a very high 300K as is probably 399K for the ones on the 2nd floor facing the marine drive.

Take a look at the developments a couple of blocks west to get a ballpark figure and then add some $$$ on top for a newer product in a better development.

[deasine]

That's about right. Even the apartments north of the Fraserlands development: Brittany @ Champlain Square which has a much better location and is about a year old now is going for $499 000 right now.

[northwest2k]

2 bedroom cookie cutter condos in South Surrey are going for $399, 000. So yeah. Sorry bud you're out of luck

[WarrenC12]

You guys might be living in 2007, times have changed, developers are starting to unload inventory at huge discounts. The great real estate crash is upon us!

AW, I'd like something in the 1000sf range in the mid 400s downtown. My deal might be a bigger stretch than yours but I think both are coming.