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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 8:32 AM
Feathered Friend Feathered Friend is offline
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1444 Alberni - Open House info and better model















As I expected, there was indeed a far more impressive model waiting at the open house. The turn out was pretty high, but had petered out by the time I got there (I first went to the 33 Cordova project). There was some "Tower Nimbism" (Not my term) going on from the neighbouring James Cheng designed 1500 Alberni project. There was also quite a bit of support for the unique-to-Vancouver flavor of the design.

The starchitect flew in last night, is leaving on a red-eye tonight, and will be back for the UDP meeting next Wednesday. The model itself actually saw some flight time as well. For whatever reason, the applicant had the model built in New York and flown out here; which is kinda funny given that one of this project's selling features is that it will be North America's largest passive house project.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 8:59 AM
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Maybe he did it locally (close to him in NYC) for stricter oversight.
The balconies don't show up as well on the larger model, compared to the lighter coloured smaller model.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 3:31 PM
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Looks fantastic.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 6:26 PM
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This is actually pretty cool. I like it.

That area of the West End will be unreal in 5 years time.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2017, 7:42 PM
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I wish they would make the crown a bit more dramatic, so that it could be lit with yellow lights. There are many fantastic older towers in the states with amazing crowns and something like that would be great to see here as well.

I still absolutely love the buildings. Just add in some gargoyles!
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 5:30 AM
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Version 1 - UDP Recommends Resubmission

Quote:
Panel Consensus:
Having reviewed the project it was moved by Ms. Spoelstra and seconded by Ms. Brudar and was the decision of the Urban Design Panel:
THAT the Panel recommends resubmission of the project with the following recommendations to be reviewed by City Staff:
  • Review the massing and density of the building and encourage more modulation to better express the base, middle, and top;
  • The lower level massing along Broughton Street massing should be improved/revised to either set the tower back from the podium, or to extend the tower down to grade distinctly from the podium;
  • Improve the podium’s west elevation and expression facing the park;
  • Concentrate the amenities spaces and provide more indoor and outdoor and public realm space;
  • Revise flow of daycare (drop off and pick up) flow of parking and bike access to be safe and effective;
  • Make the podium more welcoming to the public realm on the street edge;
  • Improve the livability of the units facing the lane;
  • Integrate public art in the design process now;
  • Ensure viability of street trees.

Related Commentary: The panel commended the applicant on the comprehensive, well put together submission package and expressed appreciation for the inclusion of historical analysis of the existing building on the site.

The panel was of mixed opinion regarding height, some stating that the height is acceptable while others felt it was not necessary to project into the Queen Elizabeth view cone, feeling that the same design intent could be achieved with less height.

The panel was of mixed opinion on density with some panel members comfortable with the proposed density, while others said that the towers could be more sculpted if density was reduced. One panel member said that the density and massing as proposed was what is anticipated by the West End Community Plan. Others felt that the overall design could be improved with more modulation and articulation in the massing and that a reduction in density would improve the expression. The site feels crowded, with one panel member remarking that it is because the site is shortened due to the additional setback for the Nicola mini-park.

The panel members who mentioned the averaging of the floorplate were supportive of this approach.

The panel observed that the podium appeared under-scaled and weak at just a few storeys in height and that it felt truncated at the top. Several panel members remarked that the massing of how the tower interacts with podium at the east elevation should be addressed to improve the presence to
Broughton Street. As it is, the massing of the tower is flush with the podium at the setback line. The podium expression generally feels relentless and could use greater variety.

There was a liking to the concept of the divisions of the towers (base, middle top, crown), however it was suggested that there needed to be greater modulation and articulation between each of the
divisions. The heights of the tower step backs should relate to context buildings.

Some panel members were challenged by the non-symmetricity of the two towers at the crown, asking why the west tower appears to lean towards the taller east tower. The panel agreed the advantages of the proposed punched window style are the energy performance, the high quality materials to be used and the unique expression, and acknowledged that there is a yearning to move away from glass towers that have predominated since the 90s. Some of the panel members noted that some of the decorative features needed to be reassessed (i.e. balconies).

It was also noted that there was additional room for improvement for the design of units that dip below grade along Alberni Street and the livability of units facing onto the lane as they appeared “rough.”

The panel felt that the main entries to the rental component at east and west appeared to be pushed aside, and should be made more prominent.

The panel commended the applicant for their commitment to the passive house standard. It was suggested to look at safe guards so the performance the applicant is expecting is achieved (i.e. a peer group), and to reduce the post occupancy costs for the tenants (strata fees) for programs such as the waste management concierge.

The public realm was not sufficient relative to the density of the building. The panel also felt that the amenity spaces felt too small and dispersed for the size of the project. The entry courtyard on Alberni will always be in shade. The amenity spaces should be concentrated rather than distributed to
encourage social interaction. It was suggested to integrate below grade services with the at grade levels, and to achieve better communication between indoor and outdoor amenity spaces.

The Panel felt that the parking spaces available for the pickup and drop offs of the child care were insufficient and should be designed to be safer. A bike amenity provided in the below grade that integrates with the grade level was needed.

The applicants were commended for the association with the mini park and providing the daycare facilities. A couple of panel members felt that the west elevation onto the park could have a main or multiple entries, and that generally this elevation should be made to feel more related to the park.

Consider a future use for the underground parking for a future time when the Vancouver is less carfocused.

The applicant should look at including some form of Public Art into the design process.

Applicant’s Response:
The applicant team thanked the panel.
The applicant noted the underground parking provide electrical charge units in anticipation of the future. Also, they had designed an option that was more open and orientated to the mini park but this was discouraged by Planning to prevent the perception that the building owned the park.
It seems like the UDP has no fear of striking down a starchitects proposal, with 400 W Georgia having come close to that edge, and now 1444 Alberni actually being pushed over.

I'm a little shocked by some panel members criticism of the density and height, considering the area plan allows for it. Though I do think they made some excellent observations about the podium, as well as the project's interaction with the public realm. I really like that they pointed out a need for a lower parking amount as well.

It will be interesting to see how this project reacts to the critiques, what changes we'll see in response, and if it still manages to stay a passive house. However, given the highlighting of that aspect, I would be stunned if they gave up on that goal now. When the Butterfly faced re-submission, I felt the applicant adapted the recommendations while managing to keep their vision intact; Granted, the criticism was mostly of the ground level in that case. Above all, I wonder if the new model will be flown in from New York too.

Last edited by Feathered Friend; Dec 6, 2017 at 6:08 AM. Reason: Highlighted UDP Verdict
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:04 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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I think it's great, with that true 'big city' feeling it brings. I just hope the UDP passes it, and that it gets built without too many forced changes.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
I think it's great, with that true 'big city' feeling it brings. I just hope the UDP passes it, and that it gets built without too many forced changes.
Just to clarify, because that is a long verdict, the UDP did in fact reject this version of the project.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 7:02 AM
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Well this all has to be pretty confusing for the people behind this proposal (that is 10x the quality of most towers). Even when they do something right, they're still wrong in the UDP's eyes. Hard to have much confidence in your next proposal when the UDP makes things up as they go along.
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:08 AM
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I had been convinced a long time ago that this UDP loves to screw with the best of designs, and then impose their own silly frivolous ideas so that it looks like they can wield their absolute and boundless power.

Another building which looks so plain and boring gets a nod from the UDP with not too many comments. It's almost like they are warning architects not to challenge them: if you're too good at your design, we'll make it harder for you.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:25 AM
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Quote:
There was a liking to the concept of the divisions of the towers (base, middle top, crown), ...
It's as of they've never heard of the "concept" before!!!
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:27 AM
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I like these towers quite a bit, but they are not my favourite.

I can see some tweaking being desired regarding the podium (without losing the style though).

That being said, really? So much generic crap sails through. Why weren't the two towers leading to the demolition of the iconic Landmark tower put through such a strict process? What have those two uninspired generic towers replacing a unique landmark have that these towers don't?

And really, too tall for some members? 138 meters? This is just getting silly now.

I have personally heard from a member of one of the starchitect designed towers (not going to say which one) that many are starting to get very frustrated with the height limitations and the complete mess of mixed messages being presented by the city / UDP. (spots allocated and encouraged for higher towers, nope, now there is park shadowing / this view cone doesn't matter anymore... nope, now it does again! / etc...)
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 11:19 AM
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 9:56 PM
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I feel like a lot of people are not reading the response.

While I do not agree with a lot of what the UDP says and their continued bleed of commentary past their pervue (ie they have no say over the height or crown of the building) their comments on the ground plane and urban interaction of the towers are usually good and often lead to a better tower. In this case their comments surrounding the podium are spot on IMO and can be easily addressed allowing for a quick re-submission.

Also, this was said:
Quote:
The panel agreed the advantages of the proposed punched window style are the energy performance, the high quality materials to be used and the unique expression, and acknowledged that there is a yearning to move away from glass towers that have predominated since the 90s.
So that may give some of you some solace.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 9:30 AM
Feathered Friend Feathered Friend is offline
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Quote:
When these proposed New York designed passive house towers were rejected by the UDP, we were more than a little surprised. From the tone of the minutes, it appeared that most of the panel's concerns were related to the podium and the treatment of public realm. Given the scale of the project, our feeling was that these were minor issues that would be simple to improve. It turns out we weren't the only ones to feel this way
https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/0...towers-forward
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 10:40 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
From this, is it relatively safe that the towers have the green light? (maybe with a few minor changes) .... If so, Grrrrrreat !!!
They will lend a "big city" feel to the West end, and add a sort of "mature" feeling to it it ... dare I say "New Yorkish?" ... in any case a refreshing solidity.
Thanks for the info
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
Wow that's very unexpected, but a great result.

The UDP still gets another crack at this one and it's not bogged down going to the UDP 3+ times. This is how it should always go.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 10:15 PM
rofina rofina is offline
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I'm pretty damn stoked on these towers. Such a neat change of pace from all the glass.

Very blocky, very New York.

Looking forward to them taking shape.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2018, 11:15 PM
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2018, 11:55 PM
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LOL they even rendered that annoying empty lot on Robson and Broughton like it was some kind of idyllic park. What a stupid waste of space

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