1045 Haro Street | 177m | 55 fl | Proposed

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

It says here the expected move-out date is December 2023, next month.
Does the date still hold? What's going on?

https://www.1045harostreet.com/tenant-information

Let's get those folks out of affordable housing ASAP!

[gaviscon]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Let's get those folks out of affordable housing ASAP!

That's not what I meant tho.

I was just wondering if they are pushing through with the og plan. Gotta move when there's development

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

That's not what I meant tho.

I was just wondering if they are pushing through with the og plan. Gotta move when there's development

I assume Sommerville is referring to "the earliest move out date" being the issuance of the Development Permit +4 months after that date per the Tenant Relocation Plan. That would also mean the Building Permit is essentially in a state of issuance.

One of our internet sleuths could see if / when the DP was issued.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by idunno

Did it ever proceed past the rezoning report where staff said it wasn't supported by policy?

The previous Council, in July 2022, agreed that there could be a rezoning application, although the project as envisaged wasn't supported by the West End Plan.

So far there hasn't been a rezoning application, so it's several years away from being developed, assuming Council approve it. (That will also depend on whether there's a market for several hundred expensive condos, which there may not be at the moment. That's being tested by the developer of Curv.)

[gaviscon]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The previous Council, in July 2022, agreed that there could be a rezoning application, although the project as envisaged wasn't supported by the West End Plan.

So far there hasn't been a rezoning application, so it's several years away from being developed, assuming Council approve it. (That will also depend on whether there's a market for several hundred expensive condos, which there may not be at the moment. That's being tested by the developer of Curv.)

But sales for Curv is going well, right? And it's in the vicinity as well. If Curv goes UC, do you see 1045 Haro advancing with the rezoning app soon after?

[svlt]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

But sales for Curv is going well, right? And it's in the vicinity as well. If Curv goes UC, do you see 1045 Haro advancing with the rezoning app soon after?

Curv may have absorbed the small market that's left of this type of product...
And you'd think another development of this kind would need to outshine the offerings of all that's been going on along Alberni and the Curv/Butterfly type developments to stand a chance as well

[officedweller]

1045 Haro is also across from a firehall - I can't see it being really high end.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

But sales for Curv is going well, right? And it's in the vicinity as well. If Curv goes UC, do you see 1045 Haro advancing with the rezoning app soon after?

But is Curv doing well though?
https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/statu...22826587152427

At the end of the day developers are business people. If they can't make a decent return building their product, they won't build it. At least this one didn't site empty for months/years while they wait.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by officedweller

1045 Haro is also across from a firehall - I can't see it being really high end.

True but they can make anything “high end” lol

Would be better to have more affordable units here. I’m assuming because of view cones they have to have really small floor plates, increasing price per square foot

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dleung

Shangri-la, the Charleston, and the new social housing tower proposal at Richard/Drake are all equally razor-thin from the same angle.

At any rate, after the Bjarke Ingels and Kengo Kuma towers, really anything is possible in this city.

Or not
https://storeys.com/1045-haro-thurlo...-receivership/

(Just to officially close the thread)

[whatnext]

You think they would take down the website for this project. Even if a buyer does go ahead with something at this addresss, you can be sure it won’t look like that.

https://www.1045harostreet.com/

[jollyburger]

Haro-Thurlow Street Project LP et al
Introduction and Overview
​​​​On January 12, 2024, Deloitte Restructuring Inc. was appointed by the Supreme Court of British Columbia as the Receiver and Manager, without security, of certain lands and assets of Harlow Holdings Ltd., Haro-Thurlow Street Project Limited Partnership, Haro and Thurlow GP Ltd. (collectively the "Debtors").


Contact Information
​​Information regarding the receivership and copies of the Court documents will be posted on this website from time to time. Any questions regarding this receivership may be directed to Jordan Yin at 1-604-640-5089 or joryin@deloitte.ca.

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca...olvencies.aspx

[Spr0ckets]

Ouch

Debt Owed By 55-Storey Vancouver High-Rise Developer Likely Exceeds $169M


The developers of the planned 55-storey high-rise tower that was set for 1045 Haro Street in the West End of Vancouver is in much deeper debt than what was previously known.

As first reported by STOREYS last week, the developer — Harlow Holdings Ltd., which is beneficially owned by Haro-Thurlow Street Project Limited Partnership — was placed under receivershp after an application was filed to the Supreme Court of British Columbia by the Bank of Montreal (BMO), which was claiming $82.2M in debt.

Since then, however, the court-appointed receiver has begun its work examining the financials of the developers, revealing that the extent of the debt is at least $169M......

(....at least....) $169 Million in debts.
Likely higher as there's another creditor listed who's amount owed is not listed or known at this time.

And all that is on top of $167,000 in property taxes for 2023 to the City of Vancouver.
(also likely higher since one would suspect they also owe taxes on at least one or two of the prior years.)


Having probably upwards of $180 Million in debt and taxes owed for a project that fell through from a site they bought for about $172 Million just 5 years ago and who's assessed value is now just shy of $100 Million.

Geeez!
Just bad business decision-making all around.

They made a $172 Million bet they could convince the city to bend on its viewcone policies to make this project work and ultimately lost big.


Source:
https://storeys.com/1045-haro-street-debt-statement/

[whatnext]

What a mess. The tide washes out on mania that gripped Vancouver when the huge influx of offshore money that peaked around 2016. I wonder what other downtown sites might be in jeopardy?

Anyone know if the city could seize it if they’re owed that much in back taxes?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

And all that is on top of $167 Million in property taxes for 2023 to the City of Vancouver.
(also likely higher since one would suspect they also owe taxes on at least one or two of the prior years.

You're off by a few orders of magnitude, it's $167,000.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by madog222

You're off by a few orders of magnitude, it's $167,000.

You're right.
Though more than just a "few".

Corrected.

[jollyburger]

1045 went into these view cones:

112-113m



"Sailboat masts often partially obscure the view but add to its context."

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-d...cted-view.aspx

143m

And QE Park 3.2.1



https://vancouver.ca/home-property-d...cted-view.aspx

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What a mess. The tide washes out on mania that gripped Vancouver when the huge influx of offshore money that peaked around 2016. I wonder what other downtown sites might be in jeopardy?

Anyone know if the city could seize it if they’re owed that much in back taxes?

Cities don't seize properties for owed property tax, they typically go through a tax sale auction process. In most cases though the mortgage company/bank would simply pay the property tax and they would move toward seizing the property.

In this case though we know it has gone into receivership since it is a company then everyone becomes a creditor. There are other projects going through that right now throughout Metro Vancouver and in all those cases the properties went into receivership and then basically get sold to pay off the creditors as much as they can given there are multiple mortgages on it and not just 1 lender. BMO and the other banks can't just seize it but they're basically forcing a sale and then all proceeds go to them to pay off the debts owing and minimize their losses. I guess you could argue that all the lenders collectively have "seized" the property already by pushing it into receivership.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GMasterAres

Cities don't seize properties for owed property tax, they typically go through a tax sale auction process. In most cases though the mortgage company/bank would simply pay the property tax and they would move toward seizing the property.

In this case though we know it has gone into receivership since it is a company then everyone becomes a creditor. There are other projects going through that right now throughout Metro Vancouver and in all those cases the properties went into receivership and then basically get sold to pay off the creditors as much as they can given there are multiple mortgages on it and not just 1 lender. BMO and the other banks can't just seize it but they're basically forcing a sale and then all proceeds go to them to pay off the debts owing and minimize their losses. I guess you could argue that all the lenders collectively have "seized" the property already by pushing it into receivership.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. There seems to be quite a spread between what was paid for the property and what it’s now worth, so sounds like everyone will take a bath.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.insolvencies.deloitte.ca...olvencies.aspx

Court's judgment in appointing the receiver.
Has some interesting background information.

https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/2...24BCSC0047.htm