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  #15761  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 5:26 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Thank you
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  #15762  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 5:30 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Really happy there seems to be some momentum and reinvestment on McDowell there. Every time I go through there I think it is prime for a resurgence. One of the few cohesive stretches in town with street-facing retail. Also, Tacos Chiwas is delicious.
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  #15763  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 5:33 PM
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Thank you
Double thank you. I was wanting to read that article as well. I have noticed a lot of construction along McDowell and this answered my questions perfectly!
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  #15764  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 5:44 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Really happy there seems to be some momentum and reinvestment on McDowell there. Every time I go through there I think it is prime for a resurgence. One of the few cohesive stretches in town with street-facing retail. Also, Tacos Chiwas is delicious.
Ditto. Chiwas is bomb. La Marquesa is also pretty good. Another great place for pupusas is El Guanaquito nearby on McDowell as well
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  #15765  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 6:45 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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This is exciting and such a great street location for this kind of revitalization!!!!!
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  #15766  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 6:56 PM
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i personally think Renaissance Square is STILL *by far* the best looking towers in Phoenix. Still wish they had gone 50 floors and one building as the design lends itself to serious height. But it's still a gorgeous pair of buildings that have aged very well. Kinda like the former ARCO towers in LA from '83 or so.
It's definitely one of the better buildings downtown. They really put the money into the finishes when it was built and it has a lot of lasting power.
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  #15767  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 7:09 PM
Chestnut1 Chestnut1 is offline
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Regarding this area of McDowell - a preapp was recently submitted for multi-family on what I would assume is the vacant lot on the south side of McDowell and 17th St. PAPP 1908864.
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  #15768  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 7:21 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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The article briefly mentions issues with the area's walk appeal. That can be a serious deterrent to supporting small businesses in the area. Even at Central & McDowell, right around the light rail station, it's enough of a pain to cross the arterial streets that I think many customers would hesitate to combine destinations (e.g. lunch at Basilic followed by gelato at In Perfetto). That opportunity for spontaneous combinations of destinations is vital for small business districts to thrive, and I believe the lack of walkability has led to some of the churn along the 7th Street restaurant corridor. Crosswalks help, but it would take a serious road diet to return the Miracle Mile to its former vitality. I'm glad that at least some of the business owners understand this -- in contrast to some South Phoenix owners who believe that fewer lanes and slower traffic along Central will kill their businesses.
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  #15769  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 7:27 PM
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I'm glad that at least some of the business owners understand this -- in contrast to some South Phoenix owners who believe that fewer lanes and slower traffic along Central will kill their businesses.

This. Probably why the are of Miracle Mile will probably revitalize well before South Central. South Central needs to start understanding they are PART of the City of Phoenix and not it's own entity.
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  #15770  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 8:22 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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The article briefly mentions issues with the area's walk appeal. That can be a serious deterrent to supporting small businesses in the area. Even at Central & McDowell, right around the light rail station, it's enough of a pain to cross the arterial streets that I think many customers would hesitate to combine destinations (e.g. lunch at Basilic followed by gelato at In Perfetto). That opportunity for spontaneous combinations of destinations is vital for small business districts to thrive, and I believe the lack of walkability has led to some of the churn along the 7th Street restaurant corridor. Crosswalks help, but it would take a serious road diet to return the Miracle Mile to its former vitality. I'm glad that at least some of the business owners understand this -- in contrast to some South Phoenix owners who believe that fewer lanes and slower traffic along Central will kill their businesses.
Agreed. Wasn't there a plan for a McDowell road diet? Or am I confusing it with Van Buren?
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  #15771  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 8:32 PM
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Agreed. Wasn't there a plan for a McDowell road diet? Or am I confusing it with Van Buren?
Van Buren. But I haven't heard anything else about it since a year or so ago.
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  #15772  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 10:06 PM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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Van Buren. But I haven't heard anything else about it since a year or so ago.
Heard from Councilman Garcia at the REDs meeting last month, the Van Buren Street diet is delayed indefinitely.
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  #15773  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 10:19 PM
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Heard from Councilman Garcia at the REDs meeting last month, the Van Buren Street diet is delayed indefinitely.
Of course it is. When it comes to the complete streets plan, this city can't seem to get anywhere.
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  #15774  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:11 PM
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True North has updated their website to actually have clickable links and can view their projects now. I wanted to point out is what I think they will be building next, the 4 story office building next to the Knipe House as there have been a few permits pulled lately for the 4 story office project. There's an updated rendering on the page which looks pretty good.

https://truenorthstudio.com/projects/knipe-village/
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  #15775  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 8:14 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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On Miracle Mile, I never really knew that area was called that, a far cry from Chicago’s Miracle Mile,lol. I wonder if anyone has thought about rebranded it as Mexican Town. With the amount of Mexican restaurants in the area, I think it would be the perfect area. We don’t have a China Town, Korea Town, a Little Italy or anything. But of course we have a large enough Mexican population to at least have a Mexican Town. I think it would be awesome and makes total sense around 16th st and McDowell. When people visit other cities, they make it a point to visit the different cultural “Towns”. Any thoughts?
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  #15776  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 8:21 PM
Spitfiredude Spitfiredude is offline
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I think you see the “little (ethnic) towns” or whatever because that specific population group is much more rare or smaller in the US, but that city has a large population of that group. Whereas the Mexican, White, & Black populations in America are so large it doesn’t really make sense.... like calling somewhere in Phoenix “little Mexican town” doesn’t make sense considering 1/3 of the city is Hispanic (specifically Mexican).
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  #15777  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 2:37 AM
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It's definitely one of the better buildings downtown. They really put the money into the finishes when it was built and it has a lot of lasting power.
Glad to see there are some others that agree!
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  #15778  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 8:53 AM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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I think you see the “little (ethnic) towns” or whatever because that specific population group is much more rare or smaller in the US, but that city has a large population of that group. Whereas the Mexican, White, & Black populations in America are so large it doesn’t really make sense.... like calling somewhere in Phoenix “little Mexican town” doesn’t make sense considering 1/3 of the city is Hispanic (specifically Mexican).
I don’t agree with that at all. China Town’s are where there are many Chinese people, LA, New York, San Fran, Seattle. Chicago even has a China town, they do have a good size Asian population as well. Little Italy in New York, they have a lot of Italians in New York. Mexican Town in Chicago, for a Midwest city has a large Mexican population. Korea Town in LA, ummmmm, ever been there? Yeah, lots of Koreans. Little Havana in Miami, need I say more?
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  #15779  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 9:56 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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I don’t agree with that at all. China Town’s are where there are many Chinese people, LA, New York, San Fran, Seattle. Chicago even has a China town, they do have a good size Asian population as well. Little Italy in New York, they have a lot of Italians in New York. Mexican Town in Chicago, for a Midwest city has a large Mexican population. Korea Town in LA, ummmmm, ever been there? Yeah, lots of Koreans. Little Havana in Miami, need I say more?
Those "towns" are generally legacies from the earliest phases of migration from whatever country the "town" is named for. The first waves of immigrants clustered there, but their children, along with more recent arrivals, tend to see their version of the American Dream in the suburbs. In most historic Chinatowns, the actual population of Chinese origin is quite small compared to much larger clusters outside the city center. There are far more people of Chinese origin in Flushing, Queens, than in NYC's Chinatown. Likewise, the San Gabriel Valley long ago surpassed LA's Chinatown. Closer to home, there's Dobson Road in Chandler and Mesa. These are all newer and larger than traditional Chinatowns.

With respect to the Mexican / Hispanic / Latino population in Phoenix, the combination of "town" with the name of a country or ethnicity could come across as dated or offensive, reinforcing the worst stereotypes associated with SB1070. Keep in mind that many traditional "towns" arose in cities because of segregation. A more contemporary approach is to favor names chosen by communities themselves. In recent years, the cluster of small businesses on 16th Street just north of McDowell have sometimes been identified as "Calle 16." Extending that brand onto nearby areas of McDowell might be a workable strategy if supported by residents and business owners.

Long story short, I think your idea has some merit if modernized in its language and undertaken with community support rather than imposed from outside.
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  #15780  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 5:01 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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Those "towns" are generally legacies from the earliest phases of migration from whatever country the "town" is named for. The first waves of immigrants clustered there, but their children, along with more recent arrivals, tend to see their version of the American Dream in the suburbs. In most historic Chinatowns, the actual population of Chinese origin is quite small compared to much larger clusters outside the city center. There are far more people of Chinese origin in Flushing, Queens, than in NYC's Chinatown. Likewise, the San Gabriel Valley long ago surpassed LA's Chinatown. Closer to home, there's Dobson Road in Chandler and Mesa. These are all newer and larger than traditional Chinatowns.



With respect to the Mexican / Hispanic / Latino population in Phoenix, the combination of "town" with the name of a country or ethnicity could come across as dated or offensive, reinforcing the worst stereotypes associated with SB1070. Keep in mind that many traditional "towns" arose in cities because of segregation. A more contemporary approach is to favor names chosen by communities themselves. In recent years, the cluster of small businesses on 16th Street just north of McDowell have sometimes been identified as "Calle 16." Extending that brand onto nearby areas of McDowell might be a workable strategy if supported by residents and business owners.

Long story short, I think your idea has some merit if modernized in its language and undertaken with community support rather than imposed from outside.
I was waiting for this,lol. Wow, ok. Yes I know that traditional “towns” are where the original immigrates migrated to. But one of the biggest knocks on Phoenix is that we have no culture. It’s just about embracing the culture we do have. Call it whatever, I could get down with Calle 16, that’s cool. Of course we have Mexican restaurants all over town but if that area could be the center for Mexican business, culture and a destination for out of towers, I think that would be really cool. My original home town of Detroit has a Greek Town and with a small Mexican population has a Mexican Town and they are destinations for out of towners. Idk, Just think it’s an opportunity for our city to have “culture”. Btw, yes Queens has a huge Asian population but China Town still has a high Asian population. Look at the race map on New York City’s Race map on Wikipedia. You can see right where China Town is in Mahattan indicated by the Green on the map.
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