Which Two Canadian Metros Are Really In Sync With Each Other

[Razor]

Just for discussion.

Real synergy between both such as travel ,trade, shared local cultures etc.
I'm discounting Ottawa and Gatineau because of them being essentially one metro.

I feel there's a bit of a disconnect with Montreal and Ottawa.
I travelled the Ontario side to Montreal enough times, and the traffic volume has always been a little underwheming to me considering there's +/- 6.0 million people between the two metros which are just under 2.0 hours apart.I realize that traffic volume isn't exactly the benchmark for two metros being in sync, but I also can't think of two metros in Canada that are this close with entirety different M.O'S.
OTOH, I've run into more people from Kingston either through business or travel, so I would say Kingston/Ottawa may be a good example of two metros in harmony with each other.

Which two metros do you feel really click and have a lot of of back and forth together?

Montreal/QC?

Hamilton/Toronto?

The obvious ones?

Are there any more examples of two that are in close proximity to each other and that you would think there would be a strong connection, but there just isn't, like a Mars and Venus scenario? Inversely, which two do you feel have the most?

[middeljohn]

Calgary/Edmonton is the most obvious one to me.

[balletomane]

Saskatoon and Regina. Even though their corridor isn't urbanized the same way Calgary and Edmonton's are, they both anchor a large region with their economic regions overlapping.

Also, I know you said Canadian, but Detroit-Windsor for sure.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by balletomane

Saskatoon and Regina. Even though their corridor isn't urbanized the same way Calgary and Edmonton's are, they both anchor a large region with their economic regions overlapping.

Also, I know you said Canadian, but Detroit-Windsor for sure.

That's a great example, and I may post a similar thread in the City Discussions as well.

[BIMBAM]

Vancouver and Victoria are strongly connected and well integrated, despite the water barrier. As the only two Canadian true cities in the region they look to one another. They aren't rivals as they each have their own naturally determined hinterlands. They share much in common as the two cities of coastal BC, and differ in their layouts, economies, and lifestyles from cities in the interior.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by BIMBAM

Vancouver and Victoria are strongly connected and well integrated, despite the water barrier. As the only two Canadian true cities in the region they look to one another. They aren't rivals as they each have their own naturally determined hinterlands. They share much in common as the two cities of coastal BC, and differ in their layouts, economies, and lifestyles from cities in the interior.

How about Vancouver Victoria and Nanaimo

[balletomane]

If you expand this beyond only two metros, than KWC plus Guelph would be another example.

[SignalHillHiker]

In terms of national significance... Toronto/Ottawa and Montreal.

In terms of actual connection, even if only regionally significant... Calgary/Edmonton.

If we bring it down to separate municipalities but even within the same CMA, then I think Victoria and St. John's are probably the most integrated/nonsensically separated into different municipalities.

There's also a very interesting dynamic between New Brunswick's three cities. They're very connected, but they're also separate. They're almost like... Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. So different, so separate, but part of the same country. Instead it's Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton - different, but part of the same province, and connected on some medium-importance level.

[north 42]

I think that Hamilton and Niagara are pretty in sync with each other, maybe even more so than Hamilton and Toronto.

[kwoldtimer]

K-W and Guelph, I would say.

[Rico Rommheim]

Westmount and Montreal-West. Also, Pointe-Claire and D.D.O.

[bikegypsy]

In sync, to me means 'working together and completing each other'. I think that we can exclude the 2 'real' big cities as they are their own islands, if not planets. Montreal looks favourably to Quebec City as a place for an interesting getaway... but not more. Quaint and charming, but that's it. Lord knows Toronto doesn't need anybody else. As for Ottawa and Kingston, the larger city in any given region always acts as magnet for various things... Education, employment, etc... How many people from Ottawa do you meet in Kingston? Not many save for weekend day trippers. Besides, Kingston is kind of too small to be considered seriously. So no, not in my opinion.

The obvious 2 cities are Calgary and Edmonton. Almost identical in size and quite different (but complimenting) in activity. Corporate types vs engineers and civil servants, business vs the arts, office vs playground, etc. They both treat the other like a red headed step child (as all close/rival cities do) but are basically non-identical twins forever in need of each other.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

In sync, to me means 'working together and completing each other'. I think that we can exclude the 2 'real' big cities as they are their own islands, if not planets. Montreal looks favourably to Quebec City as a place for an interesting getaway... but not more. Quaint and charming, but that's it. Lord knows Toronto doesn't need anybody else. As for Ottawa and Kingston, the larger city in any given region always acts as magnet for various things... Education, employment, etc... How many people from Ottawa do you meet in Kingston? Not many save for weekend day trippers. Besides, Kingston is kind of too small to be considered seriously. So no, not in my opinion.

The obvious 2 cities are Calgary and Edmonton. Almost identical in size and quite different (but complimenting) in activity. Corporate types vs engineers and civil servants, business vs the arts, office vs playground, etc. They both treat the other like a red headed step child (as all close/rival cities do) but are basically non-identical twins forever in need of each other.

Although Kingston is geographically closer to Ottawa than to Toronto, I think it's more connected with Toronto than Ottawa. In my years living in Kingston, I met a lot of Queens students as well as people who had relocated there from other cities. There were definitely a few from Ottawa, the Upper Ottawa Valley and the Seaway Valley, but they were outnumbered by people from the GTA and other places along the 401 between Toronto and Kingston.

Another thing I noticed - far more Leafs fans than Senators fans in Kingston.

That said, Ottawa Bluesfest and the Canal seem to be popular day trips for Kingston residents, as I recall. Kingston is also more within Ottawa's media influence than Toronto's, as CBC Radio there comes from Ottawa and both the CTV and CBC TV channels are from Ottawa.

Ottawa's airport is also arguably much easier to get to than Toronto's. Ottawa's is in the south end close enough to Highway 416 while Toronto's is on the west side, more convenient for someone from London or K-W.

In some ways Kingston is also quite connected with Watertown, New York. There is media influence from TV and radio from Watertown, and there's quite a bit of cross-border traffic. New York license plates are a common site in Kingston, and Ontario license plates are a common site in Watertown. When the dollar was more favourable, at least half the plates in the parking lot at Watertown's main mall were from Ontario.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

In sync, to me means 'working together and completing each other'. I think that we can exclude the 2 'real' big cities as they are their own islands, if not planets. Montreal looks favourably to Quebec City as a place for an interesting getaway... but not more. Quaint and charming, but that's it. Lord knows Toronto doesn't need anybody else. As for Ottawa and Kingston, the larger city in any given region always acts as magnet for various things... Education, employment, etc... How many people from Ottawa do you meet in Kingston? Not many save for weekend day trippers. Besides, Kingston is kind of too small to be considered seriously. So no, not in my opinion.

The obvious 2 cities are Calgary and Edmonton. Almost identical in size and quite different (but complimenting) in activity. Corporate types vs engineers and civil servants, business vs the arts, office vs playground, etc. They both treat the other like a red headed step child (as all close/rival cities do) but are basically non-identical twins forever in need of each other.

On a more serious note this is probably the best description of the two.

[Laceoflight]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

In sync, to me means 'working together and completing each other'. I think that we can exclude the 2 'real' big cities as they are their own islands, if not planets. Montreal looks favourably to Quebec City as a place for an interesting getaway... but not more. Quaint and charming, but that's it.

I see what you're saying, but I still think that Montréal needs Québec, and Québec needs Montréal. Montréal doesn't have the choice to work with Québec to get anything from the provincial government, unlike Toronto where all the decisions are made. Québec, the beautiful quiet administrative centre; Montréal the bustling cosmopolitan economic metropolis. Québec the neat and tidy, Montréal the gritty and dirty. Québec as the centre of French America, Montréal as its eye on the world. Québec, the door to Atlantic Canada; Montréal, the door to Upper Canada. Québec and its car culture; Montréal with it's bicycling hippies and endless traffic jams. Québec, the city in touch with its history ; Montréal, the city that destroyed lots of it to get bigger. Québec, the conservative area of the province ; Montréal, it's progressive hotspot. Québec wants to be big (and is a tad jealous of Mtl), Montréal just is (and sometimes laughs at Qc's attempts at "greatness"). The cities share very similar areas ; Old Limoilou and Montcalm could easily pass for Rosemont or Villeray ; and parts of Ho-Ma could be confused with Saint-Roch. Québec kind of relies on Montréal for big events ; Montrealers often rely on Québec for well-paid governmental jobs...

The province of Québec truly has 2 hearts, whether we want it or not. One historical and administrative ; the other, cultural and economic. Plus, the roads between the two cities have become mythic in French Canada (the A20 sure, but also the 132 and the 138) and they are well-represented in our literature, theatre, music and movies, TV (Robert Charlebois, J.-P. Ferland, Félix Leclerc, Claude Jasmin, Roch Voisine, Georges D'Or, Luis Mariano, etc.)

I think this rivalry defines a little of both cities. At least in our minds. The cities are in sync. And I'd say it's at least 200 years old (it's well-documented) It sure lost a bit of its vigour since Québec lost its hockey team though

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by north 42

I think that Hamilton and Niagara are pretty in sync with each other, maybe even more so than Hamilton and Toronto.

I wouldn't say that. I would say that everything outside Toronto is subordinately in sync with Toronto, while Toronto answers to no one.

Like all alpha cities.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by north 42

I think that Hamilton and Niagara are pretty in sync with each other, maybe even more so than Hamilton and Toronto.

Yes..I can definitely see that..I visited a friend in Port Colbourne a few different times over the years, and it felt like a the whole Niagara region was in step with each other with Hamilton being kind of like the anchor city, and at least for my friend's wife, Saint Catherine's Penn centre being the mall. Across the border in NY was the grocery shopping.

I didn't get any sort of sense of severe competition between Welland, Port, and Saint Kitts.Maybe there are some of those dynamics that I just didn't pick up on.

There definitely is a Lot of interchange within that whole region including Hamilton. Even moving around yet keeping the same job. My friend and his wife's group of friends lived all over that region, and I sensed that people moved between the towns and cites without giving it a second thought. Moving from Welland to Saint Catherine's was almost like changing neighborhoods and not cities. They amalgamated since I believe.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes..I can definitely see that..I visited a friend in Port Colborne a few different times over the years, and it felt like a the whole Niagara region was in step with each other with Hamilton being kind of like the anchor city, and at least for my friend's wife, St. Catharines Penn centre being the mall. Across the border in NY was the grocery shopping.

I didn't get any sort of sense of severe competition between Welland, Port, and Saint Kitts (this one is ok).Maybe there are some of those dynamics that I just didn't pick up on.

There definitely is a Lot of interchange within that whole region including Hamilton. Even moving around yet keeping the same job. My friend and his wife's group of friends lived all over that region, and I sensed that people moved between the towns and cites without giving it a second thought. Moving from Welland to St. Catharines was almost like changing neighborhoods and not cities. They amalgamated since I believe.

fixed it for ya

As someone born and raised in Niagara, the cities in the Niagara Region are very intertwined and have been since the region was created in 1970.

St. Catharines is the "big city" at 133-140k, Niagara Falls is the tourism/service jobs city, Welland is the former industrial behemoth now sadly call center/service jobs mostly. Retail wise, The Pen Centre in St. Catharines is the anchor for everyone shopping wise, especially since the Niagara Square (NF) is almost dead and the Seaway Mall (Welland) is dying.

You're correct in that most people think nothing of moving within the region as everywhere is 20-35 minutes away with little traffic compared to larger centres.

The connections with Hamilton are increasing, mostly through health care. If you have cancer or your child is sick Hamilton is the place to go for treatment. If you want a good paying industrial job, Hamilton is also not that far of a commute.

And yes, Niagara residents think nothing of crossing the border into Buffalo/Western NY for shopping, Sabres/Bills/Bisons games, etc.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes..I can definitely see that..I visited a friend in Port Colbourne a few different times over the years, and it felt like a the whole Niagara region was in step with each other with Hamilton being kind of like the anchor city, and at least for my friend's wife, Saint Catherine's Penn centre being the mall. Across the border in NY was the grocery shopping.

Hamilton is definitely not an "anchor city" for Niagara. The one-way ties between Hamilton and Toronto (one-way in that Toronto doesn't pay any attention to Hamilton) are about a hundred thousand times stronger than the ties between Hamilton and Niagara.

Which are there, for sure. But still, St. Catharines is the anchor for Niagara, not Hamilton. As Wigs says:

Originally Posted by Wigs

The connections with Hamilton are increasing, mostly through health care. If you have cancer or your child is sick Hamilton is the place to go for treatment. If you want a good paying industrial job, Hamilton is also not that far of a commute.

That essentially sums up the connections between Hamilton and Niagara. People in Niagara contemplating a move to a bigger city will generally think of St. Catharines first, and then Toronto, with Hamilton being in the vague pool of other potential cities such as Kitchener, London, Guelph etc.

The truth about Hamilton is that it's a lone wolf that isn't really in sync with anybody. Think about how fantastically unlikely it is that there is no limited access highway between Hamilton and Kitchener. And if you look at the 403, it essentially functions as an alternative route to the GTA (i.e. you wouldn't take the 401 if you were going to Burlington or Oakville) and/or Niagara.

Hamilton is an afterthought for people who live outside of it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Hamilton is definitely not an "anchor city" for Niagara. The one-way ties between Hamilton and Toronto (one-way in that Toronto doesn't pay any attention to Hamilton) are about a hundred thousand times stronger than the ties between Hamilton and Niagara.

Which are there, for sure. But still, St. Catharines is the anchor for Niagara, not Hamilton. As Wigs says:



That essentially sums up the connections between Hamilton and Niagara. People in Niagara contemplating a move to a bigger city will generally think of St. Catharines first, and then Toronto, with Hamilton being in the vague pool of other potential cities such as Kitchener, London, Guelph etc.

The truth about Hamilton is that it's a lone wolf that isn't really in sync with anybody. Think about how fantastically unlikely it is that there is no limited access highway between Hamilton and Kitchener. And if you look at the 403, it essentially functions as an alternative route to the GTA (i.e. you wouldn't take the 401 if you were going to Burlington or Oakville) and/or Niagara.

Hamilton is an afterthought for people who live outside of it.

Imagine if they didn't have the Tiger-Cats. (Only half-joking.)