PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Crossing my fingers, but the tone of this article suggests the MFE might be in serious trouble as it comes up for vote at the SPC (our regional planning commission):

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/so.../201703170098/

It would be great if this was killed once and for all.

[highlander206]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Crossing my fingers, but the tone of this article suggests the MFE might be in serious trouble as it comes up for vote at the SPC (our regional planning commission):

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/so.../201703170098/

It would be great if this was killed once and for all.

I really hope it dies forever too for a couple reasons.

1. I think the idea of highways causing a boom for the areas they go through can be vastly overstated in some cases.

2. This is ridiculously expensive and going through an area which hasn't had much going for it for decades now. Just spending all of this money on existing transportation in that area would give a vastly better return.

3. Related to my second point that there are so many existing needed road upgrades and public transit needs that this money could be used for and would benefit the region much more.

4. I used to use the expressway as a way to visit friends in college and the road isn't used much at all. In general it goes through pretty rural areas and just like the Southern Beltway, I highly doubt the use estimates will match reality. Not many people like to use a toll road to get around day to day if they don't have to.

[themaguffin]

While I agree that highways deserve scrutiny and well any project of such size and yes it does appear to be expensive even for its kind of project, but I think that too many in forums like this get caught in a bubble.

1 the current MFE is not connected to any population center of any size - why would it have much volume at this point? - same thing with the Findley connector - they are all part of the greater project

2 Not all commutes are work related and not traveling is local

Many people - many often visit friends in family from one awkward part of the metro to another - there will NEVER be public transit to serve such commutes. If there were, it would be quite a vast, intricate system.

Also people travel for business and other reasons from countless points As to countless point Bs.

I'm not saying this justifies the MFE, but it's all too easily dismissed.

[BrianTH]

The Findlay Connector by itself was projected to get 12000 daily vehicles, before any other segments were built. It has gotten about 4500. Sure it will get a few more if we spend billions more to add more segments, but what this shows is the original usage prediction models used to justify this project are irredeemably broken.

We've got existing highways to get around. If it isn't rush hour, I-376 is going to be faster for most people trying to cross east/west (and it doesn't have a toll). That explains the focus on commuter traffic--outside of commuter times, there is going to be very little advantage to using this road.

Of course at the end of the day, a few people would in fact benefit for one reason or another. Just not nearly enough to justify the massive construction cost and destruction of land value.

[BrianTH]

According to Building Pittsburgh, Campus Advantage has selected a contractor, Rycon, to build its student-oriented apartments at 3407 Forbes:

https://buildingpittsburgh.com/

This is just a block away from Skyvue and the new hotel, and across from the surface parking lot where an office building is going.

Originally it was going to be next to the Arby's:



But now I understand it also is replacing the Arby's:



I note it was originally also reported as around a $19M project, and now it is a $40M project. Don't love the yellow, however.

[themaguffin]

Yes we know at that and I'm not going to go in circles for the 1,000th time. I noted the expense and well deserved scrutiny and I also merely noted what is a blind spot on forums like this - a blind spot that was not responded. Moving on...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Yes we know at that and I'm not going to go in circles for the 1,000th time. I noted the expense and well deserved scrutiny and I also merely noted what is a blind spot on forums like this - a blind spot that was not responded. Moving on...

My point was that the considerations you raised are not in fact being ignored in the discussions we have had in this forum.

[themaguffin]

only in response to comments like yours. It has never been considered from your position. It's treated very simplistically.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Don't love the yellow, however.

I'm at the point where I will give anything credit which uses a color palette other than tan/brown, red/orange, or grey/silver.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm at the point where I will give anything credit which uses a color palette other than tan/brown, red/orange, or grey/silver.

Fair point. And sometimes yellows look better in person.

Regardless, nice scale and massing . . . Ill take it.

[highlander206]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

According to Building Pittsburgh, Campus Advantage has selected a contractor, Rycon, to build its student-oriented apartments at 3407 Forbes:

https://buildingpittsburgh.com/

This is just a block away from Skyvue and the new hotel, and across from the surface parking lot where an office building is going.

Originally it was going to be next to the Arby's:



But now I understand it also is replacing the Arby's:



I note it was originally also reported as around a $19M project, and now it is a $40M project. Don't love the yellow, however.

I don't like the yellow, but the size and cost increases will give this project a solid footprint for that area along with SkyVue which didn't exist at all a few years ago.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by highlander206

I don't like the yellow, but the size and cost increases will give this project a solid footprint for that area along with SkyVue which didn't exist at all a few years ago.

It is really amazing how much that stretch is changing, and at a density that I find quite satisfactory for Oakland (what I think of as Downtown DC-type densities). Very cool. There are several more parcels around there that I hope might get redeveloped eventually too, and of course the possible BRT plan as well.

[eschaton]

It's interesting that despite the unit count for the new Forbes Avenue project being roughly half of that of Skyvue (389 vs 197, IIRC) the visual impact is still almost as substantial. I think this is because the new project is much shallower - only going back to Euler Way - while SkyVue crossed the paper alley and went all the way to Fifth.

[highlander206]

The SW Pennsylvania Commission has decided to table their vote on the Mon-Fayette Expressway to study if the money could be used for other products.

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/tra...s/201703200134

[highlander206]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is really amazing how much that stretch is changing, and at a density that I find quite satisfactory for Oakland (what I think of as Downtown DC-type densities). Very cool. There are several more parcels around there that I hope might get redeveloped eventually too, and of course the possible BRT plan as well.

I agree, the "front end" of Oakland coming from Downtown has always been on the more lacking side of density and street traffic so this is great to see. The only other corridor I can think of which has seem similar fast change is the Baum/Liberty one.

[Minivan Werner]

RIP Arby's.

[Gilamonster]

I think Skyvue looks clunky, awkward and cheaply made. Just sayin'

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

I think Skyvue looks clunky, awkward and cheaply made. Just sayin'

Yeah, I've always found the massing...odd. I mean, it has a very wide base considering the height of the structure, which makes it look like a truncated supertall rather than just a tall midrise.

I'm usually a fan of buildings hugging the curb as tightly as possible, but I don't think it worked with Skyvue. Maybe if they had cut a bay in the facade on the Forbes side it wouldn't look so overpowering from ground level. When you look at pictures, it looks like a pretty decent apartment building once you lop off the squarish bottom stories (which are about half parking, IIRC).

[eschaton]

Pittsburgh Business Times has some new information about the Station Square Apartments.

The new apartment project is expected to be market rate, and feature a cafe, along with a plaza and ample connections to the nearby trail. The project comes after the development company was awarded $4.5 million in two state grants to be used to build out the roads to access the site and the 300-plus space parking garage to be built under the two-building project.

Trammell Crow is considering a mix of other uses for future development on the site that include more residential, office, more parking and maybe a hotel.

Noting earth shattering, but it sounds like you could get a nice mini-neighborhood going. Hopefully in the longer run Station Square itself will get a bit redeveloped as well.

[Gilamonster]

While the article doesn't mention a start date for construction, it does say that the developer is planning for a 20 month construction schedule and is hoping for a late summer of 2018 opening, so by my rough math this project should be starting about.......last month. I'm guessing they will be on site as soon as they finish dealing with the city's bureaucracy.
I like this project and am looking forward to the full site build out.