Northern Ontario developments! - Page 180

vid · #**3581** Posted **Feb 21, 2019, 2:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TbayON

I'm going to have to refute this statement to an extent, I believe IGNORANCE is more than issue than racism, in addition to the fear of the unknown. There is a difference between these and outright racism. Thunder Bay, like most Northern Ontario communities, has existed as a predominantly European community for the majority of its history. If you take a look at European countries, you'll see them same things going on there.

I'm not saying there aren't racists here, because they exist in every community, but I think the majority or people with an issue with immigrants simply lack proper information and have been brain-washed to fear by a variety of sources.

But the ignorant aren't the ones actively being racist, if they exhibit racist tendencies it's because they've overheard active racists and are repeating their words because they don't know better. It's the social responsibility of those who are neither ignorant nor racist to correct them.

To those unaware of this local phenomenon—like, say, a recent immigrant—it's hard to distinguish this inadvertent, parroted, ignorant racism from the provocative, explicit, malicious racism. People don't walk around town with racism score cards on their chests so that you can tell if they mean their racism or not.

And good luck convincing immigrants that the people saying offensive things to them are simply mistaken and only need to be taught. Racists are unpredictable, who knows how they might react to correction? Most of them will realize their error and move on, but some of them get quite excited and become more and more belligerent as the scenario progresses, and not knowing when and who that will be is what prevents a lot of people from calling the racism out in public.

yotajoe · #**3582** Posted **Feb 21, 2019, 3:19 AM**

https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/...nction-project

swimmer_spe · #**3583** Posted **Feb 21, 2019, 3:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotajoe

https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/...nction-project

When I read that, I kept thinking of what they did in London ON for their library. There was a dying mall and they turned a large chunk of it into the Central Library.

Sudbury could do that to the Rainbow Centre.

F. Lionel · #**3584** Posted **Feb 21, 2019, 6:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

But the ignorant aren't the ones actively being racist, if they exhibit racist tendencies it's because they've overheard active racists and are repeating their words because they don't know better. It's the social responsibility of those who are neither ignorant nor racist to correct them.

To those unaware of this local phenomenon—like, say, a recent immigrant—it's hard to distinguish this inadvertent, parroted, ignorant racism from the provocative, explicit, malicious racism. People don't walk around town with racism score cards on their chests so that you can tell if they mean their racism or not.

And good luck convincing immigrants that the people saying offensive things to them are simply mistaken and only need to be taught. Racists are unpredictable, who knows how they might react to correction? Most of them will realize their error and move on, but some of them get quite excited and become more and more belligerent as the scenario progresses, and not knowing when and who that will be is what prevents a lot of people from calling the racism out in public.

Case in point - Most gas stations in TB have pay windows if they are open after a certain hour of the evening. I pay at the pump so I don't care for the most part whether there is a window or not.

One evening in the not too recent past I was pumping my gas late and a middle aged Caucasian man shows up in his pickup truck and wants to buy cigarettes and lottery. When he tries the door and finds it locked he gets agitated. Now the employee in question was a younger East Indian woman. After watching him get upset that he isn't allowed to go into the store he loudly proclaims to everyone that "These people should go back to their country."

I said directly to him "Why be racist like that? It's uncalled for."

His response: "I'm not racist. I just don't think they should be here or tell me I can't do something." And then proceeded to threaten me for even suggesting that he was racist.

Ignorant Racism on display. I wish I could say this is an isolated event that I've observed in my city.

vid · #**3585** Posted **Feb 22, 2019, 4:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Case in point - Most gas stations in TB have pay windows if they are open after a certain hour of the evening. I pay at the pump so I don't care for the most part whether there is a window or not.

One evening in the not too recent past I was pumping my gas late and a middle aged Caucasian man shows up in his pickup truck and wants to buy cigarettes and lottery. When he tries the door and finds it locked he gets agitated. Now the employee in question was a younger East Indian woman. After watching him get upset that he isn't allowed to go into the store he loudly proclaims to everyone that "These people should go back to their country."

I said directly to him "Why be racist like that? It's uncalled for."

His response: "I'm not racist. I just don't think they should be here or tell me I can't do something." And then proceeded to threaten me for even suggesting that he was racist.

Ignorant Racism on display. I wish I could say this is an isolated event that I've observed in my city.

It wasn't even her decision, it was probably a corporate policy.

The Circles K might employ east Indians, but they're all owned by white people. No offense to the whites, but the east Indians tend to be harder workers than they are. A lot of white people have this expectation that jobs are owed to them. The concept of working hard to maintain a job has escaped them, especially the younger generation, where they've been raised by parents who believe this and so they're amplifying the sense of entitlement.

F. Lionel · #**3586** Posted **Feb 22, 2019, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

It wasn't even her decision, it was probably a corporate policy.

The Circles K might employ east Indians, but they're all owned by white people. No offense to the whites, but the east Indians tend to be harder workers than they are. A lot of white people have this expectation that jobs are owed to them. The concept of working hard to maintain a job has escaped them, especially the younger generation, where they've been raised by parents who believe this and so they're amplifying the sense of entitlement.

As someone who regularly has to interview job seekers in Thunder Bay I have to agree whole-heartedly with these sentiments.

As for the response to the story I fully understand the idea of a corporate decision as I also deal with those daily. There is a unique character to Thunder Bay that leads many to believe that we exist outside of corporate Canada expectations because, you know, "Thunder Bay".

Home Outfitters Closing probably won't have much of a local impact except to create another Empty Retail Storefront in this city which already seems to have too many.

This marks two major ones in the Thunder Centre along with at least a portion of Sears still unleased, along with the former Winners location at the Walmart Memorial Super Centre. Of course this doesn't include the other major/minor empty commercial spaces in County Fair, Arthur Street Marketplace, Brentwood, McIntyre Centre, and Northwood.

saffronleaf · #**3587** Posted **Feb 22, 2019, 9:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Case in point - Most gas stations in TB have pay windows if they are open after a certain hour of the evening. I pay at the pump so I don't care for the most part whether there is a window or not.

One evening in the not too recent past I was pumping my gas late and a middle aged Caucasian man shows up in his pickup truck and wants to buy cigarettes and lottery. When he tries the door and finds it locked he gets agitated. Now the employee in question was a younger East Indian woman. After watching him get upset that he isn't allowed to go into the store he loudly proclaims to everyone that "These people should go back to their country."

I said directly to him "Why be racist like that? It's uncalled for."

His response: "I'm not racist. I just don't think they should be here or tell me I can't do something." And then proceeded to threaten me for even suggesting that he was racist.

Ignorant Racism on display. I wish I could say this is an isolated event that I've observed in my city.

This type of racism is really prevalent in Canada but many seem to think nothing of it. Poor lady, I hope she is ok.

Loco101 · #**3588** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

When I read that, I kept thinking of what they did in London ON for their library. There was a dying mall and they turned a large chunk of it into the Central Library.

Sudbury could do that to the Rainbow Centre.

The Rainbow Centre is actually doing quite well. I don't think it currently has space for a library.

swimmer_spe · #**3589** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

The Rainbow Centre is actually doing quite well. I don't think it currently has space for a library.

They could build over the parking lot to the west of it.

Loco101 · #**3590** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Case in point - Most gas stations in TB have pay windows if they are open after a certain hour of the evening. I pay at the pump so I don't care for the most part whether there is a window or not.

One evening in the not too recent past I was pumping my gas late and a middle aged Caucasian man shows up in his pickup truck and wants to buy cigarettes and lottery. When he tries the door and finds it locked he gets agitated. Now the employee in question was a younger East Indian woman. After watching him get upset that he isn't allowed to go into the store he loudly proclaims to everyone that "These people should go back to their country."

I said directly to him "Why be racist like that? It's uncalled for."

His response: "I'm not racist. I just don't think they should be here or tell me I can't do something." And then proceeded to threaten me for even suggesting that he was racist.

Ignorant Racism on display. I wish I could say this is an isolated event that I've observed in my city.

None of our gas stations in Timmins have pay windows and many of them are open 24 hours. A couple did in the past but not anymore. Timmins is probably similar to T-Bay in terms of crime.

Most of our gas stations are owned by families who immigrated from either India or Pakistan. (Shell, Esso, Petro-Canada, Pioneer) I haven't heard any negative racial comments, only positive ones because the stations and stores have improved a lot. I'm sure that given the right situation, there could be negative comments made by a few losers.

There are only a few gas stations left with Canadian-born owners and they are smaller ones. The Esso / On The Run by my house was owned by a Francophone family until last year and they sold it to a family who immigrated from India. Now the store looks better and the employees (even the Caucasian ones) are friendlier. One of the Petro-Canada stations is owned by an Italian-Canadian family and they even sell Italian food (pastas, meatball subs, salads, etc) in the store that they make on site. The Crevier station is owned by an English speaking Caucasian family even though Crevier is a chain of gas stations based in Quebec. There is a rural Can-Op at the East end of city limits which is owned by a Métis/Indigenous family

A brand new big Circle K just opened last week but I'm not sure who owns it and I haven't been to it yet.

vid · #**3591** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:41 AM**

I do have to add, the Circles K have all gotten better lighting and store layouts recently. There are no more dimly lit, maze-like locations anymore. I think that's more a corporate strategy though.

Loco101 · #**3592** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 2:47 AM**

Question to everyone in Northern Ontario. I'll let others answer before I do.

Are there any Indigenous-owned or run businesses in your area that stand out?

swimmer_spe · #**3593** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

Question to everyone in Northern Ontario. I'll let others answer before I do.

Are there any Indigenous-owned or run businesses in your area that stand out?

Smoke shops and gas bars.

Dengler Avenue · #**3594** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Smoke shops and gas bars.

Do they stand out in a good or bad way (because it sounds like the latter)?

swimmer_spe · #**3595** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Do they stand out in a good or bad way (because it sounds like the latter)?

Cheap gas and cheap smokes. You decide.

Dengler Avenue · #**3596** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Cheap gas and cheap smokes. You decide.

Cheap gas? Yes please!

Cheap smoke? Uhhh I’ll pass.

swimmer_spe · #**3597** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 3:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Cheap gas? Yes please!

Cheap smoke? Uhhh I’ll pass.

Gas is usually 10 cents cheaper in Sturgeon Falls than Sudbury because of it.

vid · #**3598** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 4:43 AM**

Aside from the obvious gas/smokes/bannock shops (which are on the reserve, not in the city), Thunder Bay has quite a few indigenous-led clinics (Anishnawbe Mushkiki the most notable), legal offices, and counseling services. There are a couple restaurants run by native people. The bed and breakfast on Pearl and Machar in Port Arthur has a new owner who is indigenous, and some of the rural hunting resorts and campgrounds are run by native people. I think there is a contracting company owned by natives as well but I can't recall which one.

There are also quite a few native people in administrative positions at some companies, from my experience dealing with a lot of them. It's nowhere near the 15% it would need to be to be in proportion to their share of the city's general population, but it's definitely more than 0%. Probably around 2% to 5% right now, depending on sector, with public sector being more likely to have native staff. Also there are quite a few non-native people working at native organizations too.

It's less common to see native leadership in the private sector in the city itself, but there are more examples than just smoke shops and gas bars.

TbayON · #**3599** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 9:58 PM**

Its up to the majority to speak up and defend workers of all colours and creeds from that crap. I'm glad you spoke up to that asshole at the gas station, other than get pissy and running their mouths off, what are they really going to do about it? My guess is if that East Indian women heard you, she probably felt better about herself after the incident than before because you showed support for her, and that's what we need.

In response to Home Outfitters closing comment, the employees will have no problem finding work elsewhere. There's lots of positions available at other retailers, especially with Marshall's and Urban Planet coming soon. Delta is also beginning the process of hiring and training soon.

Thunder Bay does not have many empty retail locations in its big box and mall properties (with the exception of County Fair). I see many more empty storefronts every time I'm in the Polo Park area of Winnipeg. Northwood Mall and Arthur St. Marketplace are almost full now (new eyeglass store just opening in Northwood, occupying the only vacant exterior store-front). The retail scene has become almost transient in nature, so there is always going to be empty store fronts. Its likely another home décor store will move into Thunder Bay once Home Outfitters is gone, one that is geared away from the home appliances.

There are plenty of First Nation entrepreneurs in Thunder Bay/FWFN. Perhaps the most notable is Pelletier's Auto Body/Fix Auto on Chippewa Rd. There are several small carpentry contractors running out of FWFN, and they are the ones building homes on reserve lands. Dallan provides industrial yard services. There are several forestry contractors, harvesters and trucking companies. They'll be much more to come as a result of power line construction, mining, forestry etc. in the coming years.

TbayON · #**3600** Posted **Mar 4, 2019, 9:41 PM**

THUNDER BAY

There are a few rumours circulating regarding Intercity Mall. First is that a major national grocer is looking to set up in the half of the ground floor space Sears used to have that Marshall's did not take. I don't know which chain or grocer it is, but its not a huge space for a grocery store, so I'm thinking it'll be something a little more upscale and/or specialized than your Superstores/Metros/Safeways. I'm sure this is still in negotiations, so I would by no means consider it a done deal yet.

Secondly, apparently the parent company of Urban Planet (YM Inc.) is looking at putting another store or two in the mall that are under their umbrella. Again, not a done deal.

I'm also hearing that the owner of 600 Montreal St. (Plymouth Landing) may be putting in one or two floors of office space. I have no details other than this. There are currently multiple tenants in the building.

The Thunder Bay Port Authority has put Cargo Shed #5, their proposed new heated storage building, out to tender. The site was pre-loaded in the fall and the pile is visible from 110th Ave. at Keefer.