Vancouver Downtown Streetcar | Proposed

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Would be nice to see articulated trolleys on the 5/6.

I don't think those will work on downtown streets. Regular trolley buses have difficulty already around some corners, etc.

As for "well served", if speed is the issue I think an average of 20 km/h in the downtown core is pretty good. Slower in the west end is typical... the only things that would improve that is no street parking and/or less cars on the road.

[dandor31]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think those will work on downtown streets. Regular trolley buses have difficulty already around some corners, etc.

As for "well served", if speed is the issue I think an average of 20 km/h in the downtown core is pretty good. Slower in the west end is typical... the only things that would improve that is no street parking and/or less cars on the road.

The West End is brutally slow. <10km/hr is approaching walking speed. Consolidating bus stops would also help a bit. But I only see it really getting better once we get dedicated bus lanes (perhaps by removing all the street parking on Robson/Denman/Davie).

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by dandor31

The West End is brutally slow. <10km/hr is approaching walking speed. Consolidating bus stops would also help a bit. But I only see it really getting better once we get dedicated bus lanes (perhaps by removing all the street parking on Robson/Denman/Davie).

And replace it with what? That can't be too popular...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think those will work on downtown streets. Regular trolley buses have difficulty already around some corners, etc.

As for "well served", if speed is the issue I think an average of 20 km/h in the downtown core is pretty good. Slower in the west end is typical... the only things that would improve that is no street parking and/or less cars on the road.

Perhaps some roadwork or introducing hook turns would be in order.

But definitely nix the street parking along bus routes.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by dandor31

The West End is brutally slow. <10km/hr is approaching walking speed. Consolidating bus stops would also help a bit. But I only see it really getting better once we get dedicated bus lanes (perhaps by removing all the street parking on Robson/Denman/Davie).

Robson should become a pedestrian mall.

[officedweller]

WRT the downtown streetcar - it may be revived:

New planning dir. Gil Kelley drops several references to a future streetcar in South False Creek. That's an issue that seemed dead now alive

https://twitter.com/fabulavancouver/...33390392332288

[AverageJoe]

Originally Posted by officedweller

WRT the downtown streetcar - it may be revived:


https://twitter.com/fabulavancouver/...33390392332288

One of the City planners I talked to at the False Creek Flats open house yesterday mentioned that there would be provisions in the Flats to allow for a future streetcar.

[David]

The information boards posted from the False Creek Flats Info Session indicate plans to extend the streetcar line to the future Millennium extension station at Thornton/Great Northern Way and the new Emily Carr campus. See page 10 of the part 1 PDF of the info boards: http://vancouver.ca/home-property-de...eek-flats.aspx

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Robson should become a pedestrian mall.

Sure, as soon as we get rapid transit under it. Both would be good to have in the distant future.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kisai

That said. I'm not 100% against Streetcars or LRT if the business case makes sense. My argument is mostly against running these at grade without closing the grade crossings, thus putting riders and pedestrians unnecessarily at risk. On longer stretches of land that parallel a highway (eg say Richmond-Delta-Cloverdale-Langley-Abbotsford) where you can grade separate the crossings, it might make more sense than trying to build the Skytrain. But this doesn't change the nature of the problem, that running a lightrail/streetcar system in mixed traffic is incredibly dangerous, and doesn't have to be.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If Surrey goes ahead with their LRT plans it will be very interesting to see how it's accepted there. People in the lower mainland have been spoiled by the very high frequencies that the Skytrain can achieve at low cost because of it's automation. You can't automate grade-level LRT, so it's going to be a substantially longer wait between trains than people are used to. I have a feeling that might not go over that well with the ridership.

[officedweller]

From Frances Bula @ G&M:

Vancouver mulling streetcar network despite problems in some other cities
Frances Bula
VANCOUVER
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published 17 hours ago

... the city is about to hire outside consultants to study what needs to be done to ensure that no new building projects or road changes shut the door to a future streetcar line.

The line would run down Arbutus Street and around False Creek to Yaletown, Chinatown, the central waterfront and Stanley Park. A streetcar line likely wouldn't appear on Vancouver streets inside of a decade. The line would need to be approved by regional mayors in the next 10-year plan of the regional transportation authority.
...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...06/?cmpid=rss1

Link to the RFP from PriceTags:

http://bids.vancouver.ca/bidopp/RFP/RFP-PS20171493.htm

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Robson should become a pedestrian mall.

Ironic, seeing as Robson street only developed as a shopping destination because businesses fled away from another pedestrian mall to a street that wasn't a pedestrian mall.

[Aroundtheworld]

If they do a streetcar without signal priority or a dedicated corridor they are essentially wasting their money on a shiny bus.

Let's follow the Swiss model for streetcars, not the American one.

[GenWhy?]

Key elements are good urban fabric and a consistent ROW. This line has both.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

If they do a streetcar without signal priority or a dedicated corridor they are essentially wasting their money on a shiny bus.

Let's follow the Swiss model for streetcars, not the American one.

Arbutus is (literally) made for streetcars, there are long sections with no grade crossings. It would be foolish not to take advantage of this.

Concurrently with a streetcar the city needs to bite the bullet and rezone the whole area bounded by W.16th and King Ed, Arbutus and Macdonald for multifamily. And allow more highrises to join the existing group of them in Kerrisdale.

[GenWhy?]

Zoning is practically already in place under Rental 100.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Arbutus is (literally) made for streetcars, there are long sections with no grade crossings. It would be foolish not to take advantage of this.

But we're talking about the False Creek and downtown segments, not the Arbutus one. And judging by both the article and the planning reps at the NEFC open house, it seems that our engineers have decided to go with a mixed-traffic route north of Science World - we all know how that one ends...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But we're talking about the False Creek and downtown segments, not the Arbutus one. And judging by both the article and the planning reps at the NEFC open house, it seems that our engineers have decided to go with a mixed-traffic route north of Science World - we all know how that one ends...

Yeah, a downtown streetcar is a dumb, dumb idea IMHO. It'll be the most expensive part of the line due to the need to accommodate traffic during construction, and it'll be the worst performing part because given the tight street grid there's no way to separate it from traffic. This is just as bad if not worse than Surrey trying to push through its LRT project.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, a downtown streetcar is a dumb, dumb idea IMHO. It'll be the most expensive part of the line due to the need to accommodate traffic during construction, and it'll be the worst performing part because given the tight street grid there's no way to separate it from traffic. This is just as bad if not worse than Surrey trying to push through its LRT project.

The City IS thinking of closing Water Street to car traffic, but that still leaves Quebec, Cordova and a block's worth of Powell open to car conflicts.

Not to mention that four-fifths of Vancouver's pedestrians don't even f**king look before they jaywalk... yeap, the new fences are really going to improve the downtown core.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, a downtown streetcar is a dumb, dumb idea IMHO. It'll be the most expensive part of the line due to the need to accommodate traffic during construction, and it'll be the worst performing part because given the tight street grid there's no way to separate it from traffic. This is just as bad if not worse than Surrey trying to push through its LRT project.

What part of the tight street grid are you referring to?

If this was to go right to Marpole it would have the advantage of limited grade crossings right from there to 2nd and Quebec. It isn't till you get past Sun-Yat-Sen Gardens that the street grid gets very tight. If the city truly wants to make Water Street car free teh streetcar is a natural, then it rolls down Cordova past Waterfont and the Convention centre and onto a lightly used residential section. This seems as near a perfect streetcar route any built up city can get.