Trans Canada Highway Twinning: Segments U/C

[Yahoo]

I've lived both in BC and Alberta. And yes I do contact politicians and planners with suggestions from time to time. Who knows - maybe some of them even read this forum. My posts here are simply stating an opinion about the lack of progress on the TCH in BC. I post just to counter some of the arguments that it's well under way and progressing nicely. It's unsafe and hurts the economy plain and simple.

Traffic counts are useful but they don't give an overall view of things. You might be able to justify a 50 lane freeway in Vancouver in some areas if you just looked at traffic volume, but that would hardly make any sense. With the TCH it's about a minimum standard for the #1 highway. And it's known to be well below standards in most areas.

If people didn't complain then the road might be completely ignored in favor of spending all the tax money with the highest concentration of voters. Transportation shouldn't be just about politics. And I'm happy to say that complaints from people in BC - and elsewhere are driving the political will to quit ignoring this issue.

[Yahoo]

TransCanada road closures in BC. Weather related - but it would still have less of an economic and safety impact if the road was built to better standards. The last big accident on the Coq didn't even have a fatality - likely because it was a divided roadway.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/technol...063/story.html

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

TransCanada road closures in BC. Weather related - but it would still have less of an economic and safety impact if the road was built to better standards. The last big accident on the Coq didn't even have a fatality - likely because it was a divided roadway.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/technol...063/story.html

From the sounds of the article, the highway would probably still be subject to periotic winter closing if it were 4 lanes, but point taken.

I recall taking I-90 east of Seattle, which has a similar climb to the Snoqualmie Pass as the Coquihalla east of Hope. I-90 has electronic signs that give both the air and road temperatures as well as variable speed limits - both serve as an ice warnings. Do you think that could be applied to an improved Trans Canada Highway/Freeway? I'm thinking the Coquihalla Pass and possibly the Rogers and Kicking Horse passes might be good locations.

Thoughts?

[eternallyme]

Trying to twin Rogers Pass should be fun, it would require a lot of compromises in the most difficult sections. The snowsheds would need to be replaced, and either a lot of viaducts or mountainside tunnels would be required, along with plenty of concrete rails on all sides. Building it to a higher design speed (it is 80 km/h through Rogers Pass, correct?) would be even more expensive.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by lubicon

This kind of thinking could not be more wrong. The TCH is one of only 2 routes (realistically) that link the coast to the rest of Canada. They are hugely important economically, to the tune of several million $$ per day. They may be relatively low volume, but the value of that volume is extremely high. This road only being 2 lanes is costing the BC and Canadian exonomy millions of dollars every single year.

The Port of Vancouver has a tactical advantage in being closer to Asia than competing US west cost ports. How much of that advantage is lost to poor road connections out of the port, both to the US border and Alberta?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

From the sounds of the article, the highway would probably still be subject to periotic winter closing if it were 4 lanes, but point taken.

I recall taking I-90 east of Seattle, which has a similar climb to the Snoqualmie Pass as the Coquihalla east of Hope. I-90 has electronic signs that give both the air and road temperatures as well as variable speed limits - both serve as an ice warnings. Do you think that could be applied to an improved Trans Canada Highway/Freeway? I'm thinking the Coquihalla Pass and possibly the Rogers and Kicking Horse passes might be good locations.

Thoughts?

Should be easy to do. The main difference is that Coquihalla, Rogers and Kicking Horse passes are far more avalanche prone than Snoqualime and somewhat higher. Snoqualmie (I-90) is impressive but still nothing compared to the engineering feets on I-70 or I-80 which have far greater elevation gains and weather extremes.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Bypassing Salmon Arm somehow (need a high-level bridge) would cut about 50 km off the route. However, that would likely need to be a toll bridge.

How long would the bridge need to be? I suspect it would be far longer than any floating bridge currently in existence.

[eemy]

The two spots I think a crossing might actually be feasible would both be in the neighbourhood of 1.5-2.0 km long. The longest floating bridge is 2.3 km long, but it would also be possible to build a suspension bridge with a single span crossing the lake and the towers on either side.

[eternallyme]

Revelstoke will be another challenge; even maintaining an 80 km/h speed limit would require some expropriation (not to mention an interchange at 23N/Victoria Road - which would likely be combined into a single interchange - would take up additional space, and a new Columbia River bridge would likely need 3 lanes in each direction to minimize weaving due to the short distance between that interchange and a potential 23S interchange).

[craner]

^ yes please.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

The two spots I think a crossing might actually be feasible would both be in the neighbourhood of 1.5-2.0 km long. The longest floating bridge is 2.3 km long, but it would also be possible to build a suspension bridge with a single span crossing the lake and the towers on either side.

Due to the terrain, a high-level suspension bridge is likely the most feasible. It would have multiple spans though as it would also have to cross parts of the valley below. The most feasible alignment in my opinion would be to run from Solsqua to Balmoral, running along the plateau (elevation about 800m), slightly descending to between Tillis Landing and Bastion Bay then crossing at a slight diagonal (the span would be about 4 km in length, about 2.7 km over water - so the suspensions would need to be in the water, or two cable anchorages in the water as well). From there, it would run around the edge of the mountain to east of Solsqua.

The entire new alignment would be about 30 km in length, including the bridge. By contrast, the current alignment in that section is about 60 km in length and includes several towns. Most likely, a toll of about $10 would need to be charged (but it would save a LOT of time!), which would be removed once paid off. Through trucks would be forbidden from the current alignment.

[toaster]

I drove from Ottawa to Timmins (and back) for the Holidays, and I must say twinning Highway 11 between North Bay and Temiskaming Shores (and as far as the Highway 101) should definitely be higher on the priority list than 17 from Deep River to North Bay. I'm not sure which had more traffic, but a large majority of the traffic on 11 is large transports and trucks that are very difficult to pass, especially with all the snow.

[stvfishy]

Originally Posted by Doug

How long would the bridge need to be? I suspect it would be far longer than any floating bridge currently in existence.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Bypassing Salmon Arm somehow (need a high-level bridge) would cut about 50 km off the route. However, that would likely need to be a toll bridge.

looking in the archives I found

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Regarding a crossing of Shuswap Lake to by-
pass Salmon Arm:

An original summary from 14 years ago:



http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghorse..._mgmt_plan.pdf

And from another engineering study completed years later by Earth Tech:



http://web.archive.org/web/200306201.../MikeBaker.pdf

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

There is a section east of Sicamous our family calls the Mafia highway lol. It has double lanes in each direction, is divided, has wide shoulders, has 2 lane service roads on each side, and is an incredible 100 kph. It was built years ago. The only explanation why it was doubled yet everywhere else was ignored is there must have been some organized crime involvement to encourage someone to build it. (at least that's the family joke for the inexplicably good section of road in BC).

That Malakwa section was constructed in 1984/85 as a future highway template for the area as residents were complaining about the substandard Hwy 1 even back then.

It is situate in the provincial riding of Shuswap and the then MLA for the area was Social Credit Cliff Michael. Coincidentally, Cliff Michael was also the BC Minister of Highways at the time. That's where the political angle for its construction came from.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

That Malakwa section was constructed in 1984/85 as a future highway template for the area as residents were complaining about the substandard Hwy 1 even back then.

It is situate in the provincial riding of Shuswap and the then MLA for the area was Social Credit Cliff Michael. Coincidentally, Cliff Michael was also the BC Minister of Highways at the time. That's where the political angle for its construction came from.

It's also one of the more forgiving sections in the region, so the cost would have been lower.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

That Malakwa section was constructed in 1984/85 as a future highway template for the area as residents were complaining about the substandard Hwy 1 even back then.

It is situate in the provincial riding of Shuswap and the then MLA for the area was Social Credit Cliff Michael. Coincidentally, Cliff Michael was also the BC Minister of Highways at the time. That's where the political angle for its construction came from.

The political angle is usually the place to look. That's why we had the short but nice four lane section of Highway 17 in the Bar River Flats east of Sault Ste. Marie, with well-lit intersections and generous turning lanes. John Rhodes, MPP for the Sault, was Ontario Highways Minister in the early 1970s and got it built. Unfortunately he died shortly after that and the divided highway project never went any further until the adjacent section from the Sault to Echo Bay was finally opened three or four years ago. There isn't much that is as political as highways.

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

It's also one of the more forgiving sections in the region, so the cost would have been lower.

Yep, I'd say it's probably one of the easiest sections in BC to build. The only real issue was a creek or two. But wow - 8 paved lanes of roadway in that area (counting service roads). Given that much worse sections are 100 this area should definitely be 110 kph.

Strange though that it's political - since you'd think areas around cities or large towns would have more political pull. But I guess that means another layer of government to mess with.

[red-paladin]

A new site has been created for the Trans-Canada Highway twinning between Kamloops to Alberta www.bchwy1.ca, focusing on the public consultation phase. Input is being sought with an online form as well.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

A new site has been created for the Trans-Canada Highway twinning between Kamloops to Alberta www.bchwy1.ca, focusing on the public consultation phase. Input is being sought with an online form as well.

For the most part, it appears it would be twinning existing lanes.

I think it was a mistake to build just the Donald Bridge as 4 lanes, instead they should have focused on a new alignment west of the Columbia River, crossing just west/north of Golden. That new alignment would run through one of the most forgiving sections on the whole route, and could easily be built for a 120 km/h design speed. It would require a whole new bridge (or 2 bridges) though, but provide a bypass in the area.

Salmon Arm has already been discussed, that is a real trouble spot. Either it is forced into town (with a southern bypass which is of little benefit to through traffic) or a very expensive (likely toll) bridge of Shuswap Lake is required.

Sicamous might be upgradeable on the current alignment, but would require a series of interchanges in short order and some disruption along the route. Without a long northern bypass (combining with the Salmon Arm shortcut), the only other option is to cut south and follow 97A. Similar story for Revelstoke, but such is effectively forced as no reasonable bypass route exists there. Disruption is virtually certain, even if only built to an 80 km/h design speed.

And then the Feds get the tough work...Rogers Pass is bound to be a nightmare.

[eternallyme]

I also recommend access consolidation and interchange construction at the following locations:

West of Salmon Arm

Phase 1

* Pritchard (to be constructed)
* Chase (consolidate all accesses into a single interchange)
* Squilax (relocation of access, consolidation and interchange)
* Notch Hill Road (part of a short bypass of Sorrento)
* Cedar Drive/Fairway Hills Road (constructed)
* Balmoral Road

Phase 2 (Ultimate freeway)

* Stoney Flats Road
* Chief Neskonlith Drive
* Shuswap-Chase Road (consolidate with Neskonlith?)
* Little River Road (not desirable for such a small road, but otherwise it is expropriate)
* Des Fosses Road/Waverly Frontage Road (requires reconfiguration)
* Buckley Road/Dilworth Road west of Sorrento
* Kirkpatrick Road near Carlin

Salmon Arm section - from Tappen to Canoe - should be considered a separate project and study as mentioned, so no locations or upgrades should take place at this time. Options include a bridge at Canoe Point, an urban freeway (likely elevated or trenched) or a southern bypass.

East of Salmon Arm - Orange indicates under Parks Canada control

Phase 1

* Canoe (1 or 2 interchanges)
* Old Spallumcheen Road
* Highway 97A in Sicamous (consolidate accesses - urban freeway, likely 80 km/h speed limit, no reasonable bypass option exists)
* Malakwa
* Craigellachie (with parking lots to rest area on each side and a pedestrian overpass)
* Highway 23S/Westside Road
* Highway 23N/Revelstoke (consolidate accesses - urban freeway, likely 80 km/h speed limit, no reasonable bypass option exists)
* Revelstoke Park west access (upgrade existing)
* Townley Street/Revelstoke east
* Rogers Pass
* Donald Road
* Highway 95 (to be constructed)
* Golden View Road (constructed)
* Wapta Road/Beaverfoot Road (constructed)
* Field Access Road

Phase 2 (Ultimate freeway)

* Access roads 7 km east of Canoe to Larch Hills (consolidate access)
* Bernie Road in Annis
* Solsqua Road connection
* Yard Creek south side
* Hickson Road/Ackerman Road
* Avoca Road/Perry River Road (consolidate access)
* Taft Road eastern intersection
* Camp Creek Road/Nineteen Mile Road (consolidate access)
* Three Valley Lake access
* Pine Road/Pole Yard Road
* Access roads 8 km east of Revelstoke (consolidate access)
* (local points in Revelstoke National Park, could be RIRO)
* Canyon Hot Springs/Albert Canyon
* Jumping Creek Road
* (local points in Glacier National Park, some could be RIRO)
* Rogers Road west of Donald Station
* Donald Station Road
* Access roads 8 km west of Donald S-curve (consolidate access)
* Blaeberry Road
* Moberly Branch Road
* Anderson Road/north Golden access
* Glenogle Forest Service Road
* (local points in Yoho National Park, some could be RIRO)
* Natural Bridge/Emerald Lake
* Yoho Valley Road
* Lake O'Hara