Trans Canada Highway Twinning: Segments U/C

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

For Manitobans:
If the government is to twin Highway 1 east of Falcan Lake, what's the problem with using PR 301 as the new eastbound lanes, and the current route of HWY 1 as westbound lanes?
Lol, from the map, that part of HWY 1 looks twinned until one zooms in.

301 is an access road for a busy resort area, and although it runs alongside the TCH is at a different elevation (you look down on it from #1). It is actually the tail end of the old #1 highway from Winnipeg, which is now called #44.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

The Yellowhead is not twinned (except at for about 2km at Russell) in Manitoba. They are slowly twinning east of Saskatoon and its presently twinned to just west of the Bradwell turnoff. The rest of the Yellowhead is twinned from Saskatoon to just east of the Jasper National Park entrance in Alberta.

How far east of Saskatoon is 16 supposed to be twinned? My wife is from E. Sask and we usually take hwy 5 to get "home", but with 16 being twinned that may change our route.

[craner]

Originally Posted by WildCake

The MB government recently added a lot of passing lanes for the stretch of Hwy 16 from where it meets the Trans Canada to Minnedosa. This has helped most traffic issues, and that stretch of highway probably does not warrant twinning anytime soon, except around some towns.

Most eastbound traffic from Edmonton/Saskatoon will take Saskatchewan's Hwy 11 to the TCH rather than 16 east of Saskatoon. Much safer, although this adds about 45 km to the journey, but generally higher speeds on twinned highways helps keep the time to travel that distance about the same.

The only major improvements Hwy 16 in Manitoba would need is to repave the old crumbling sections west of Minnedosa and an interchange at Hwy 16 (a lot of major accidents there this past summer)

You mean there is no interchange where #1 meets #16 ?

[DoubleK]

Nope. It's a signalized intersection.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by craner

You mean there is no interchange where #1 meets #16 ?

Nope just a plain set of lights. Manitoba highways are grossly out of date.

Outside of Winnipeg and the bypass around Portage La Prairie, there are only 3 interchanges on the TCH: One at Hwy 12 near Ste Anne, one just west of Brandon and one in the Whiteshell Provincial Park, near West Hawk Lake. The later two take advantage of a nearby topography that made it easy to justify grade separating.

They had an interchange planned for Hwy1/16 but it got scrapped when infrastructure money got diverted to flood protection in 2011. Likely the reason the rest of Manitoba's highways are out of date - the floodway around Winnipeg cost a fortune

These are the lights on the TCH in Manitoba:
1 in Virden
2 in Brandon
1 at TCH/Hwy 16
1 in Elie
5 (I think) in Headingley, outside of Winnipeg
5 on the south Perimeter (Winnipeg Bypass, the south portion being the official part of the TCH)
1 at Hwy 207, just east of the Winnipeg.

That is just the intersections with lights. There are plenty of at grade intersections with no lights that shouldn't be at-grade

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Andy6

301 is an access road for a busy resort area, and although it runs alongside the TCH is at a different elevation (you look down on it from #1). It is actually the tail end of the old #1 highway from Winnipeg, which is now called #44.

In SK, where 1 and 19 are concurrent, the WB 2 lanes borders on the town of Ernfold while the EB 2 lanes completely bypass the town. I don't see why something similar can't be done with 1 and 301 until where 301 goes under 1 to meet 44.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WildCake

The MB government recently added a lot of passing lanes for the stretch of Hwy 16 from where it meets the Trans Canada to Minnedosa. This has helped most traffic issues, and that stretch of highway probably does not warrant twinning anytime soon, except around some towns.

Most eastbound traffic from Edmonton/Saskatoon will take Saskatchewan's Hwy 11 to the TCH rather than 16 east of Saskatoon. Much safer, although this adds about 45 km to the journey, but generally higher speeds on twinned highways helps keep the time to travel that distance about the same.

The only major improvements Hwy 16 in Manitoba would need is to repave the old crumbling sections west of Minnedosa and an interchange at Hwy 16 (a lot of major accidents there this past summer)

The 16 in eastern Sask and Manitoba is such a lightly travelled highway that during the summer I don't see the point in taking the TCH/SK 11 if heading to Saskatoon or points west. Winter is a bit of a different story as it can get a little treacherous and the twinned highway would be safer... I remember about 10 years ago driving on the 16 just east of Yorkton when there was black ice all over the highway... yikes.

[Glacier]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Actually, I just found these cool maps that map the number of lanes of major roads as well as speed limit:

http://product.itoworld.com/map/179?...1.43948&zoom=4

Pretty cool stuff. Seems most of it is twinned other than eastern BC, most of northern Ontario and NL and parts of NS.

Can't find a way to filter out the pesky red roads which are 2 lanes though.

I'm quite familiar with the Trans Canada in BC having driven it dozens of time from end to end (although never in a single drive).

First of all, unlike the rest of Canada (at least the parts I've driven), the Trans-Canada is NOT the shortest route. The Coquihalla highway was built in the 1980s to bypass the Fraser Canyon, and this takes an hour off your drive. Also, you can take the ferry from the Victoria area to the the Vancouver area, and this cuts out another hour.

Going strictly on the Trans-Canada route, I calculate the entire BC portion to be 1,038km. 57km is ferry crossing (0.5%) and 241 km is freeway (23%). There's 10.4km of Freeway near Victoria, 4.1km of freeway near Nanaimo, 170km of freeway from the Vancouver side of the ferry to Hope, 11.6 km of freeway coming into Kamloops from the west, 34km of freeway on the east side of Kamloops, and 11 km east of Sicamous. Debatebly there are a few other sections of new freeway, west of Salmon Arm, around Revelstoke and Golden, but the aren't as nice and aren't designed with proper grass median division, leading to some corners banked the wrong way since all 4 lanes are stuck together.

The rest is slow driving, especially on the Island where you are inundated with one traffic light after another, even on the 4 lane sections. It's the most annoying part about living BC. Traffic lights are killing us literally (massive amounts of accidents could be prevented by putting in overpasses, plus, the GHG emissions are millions of tonnes extra per year because of the stop-go from the traffic lights).

Here in the Okanagan where I live out very busy highway is 180km long from the US border to Vernon, and there's a traffic light on average every 3km... and they keep adding more!

[Innsertnamehere]

I found the trans Canada to move nicely through the Rockies, other than the kicking horse canyon pass near golden. Even if it isn't a freeway, or even 4 lanes, you Gould generally do 110-120km/h without issue. Most of the highway has a 100km/h speed limit. It isn't a Bad road, just not up to snuff for being the trans Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Glacier

First of all, unlike the rest of Canada (at least the parts I've driven), the Trans-Canada is NOT the shortest route. The Coquihalla highway was built in the 1980s to bypass the Fraser Canyon, and this takes an hour off your drive. Also, you can take the ferry from the Victoria area to the the Vancouver area, and this cuts out another hour.

Has there been any talk of shifting the TCH designation from the old highway to the Coquihalla? That's been done in a few other places I think.

[Dengler Avenue]

If BC does that, Ontario should follow suit too by moving the TCH Central-Ontario-Route designation onto 400 and 401 from 12 and 7.
In Quebec though, the designation will need to follow A20 then A30 to join A40.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Has there been any talk of shifting the TCH designation from the old highway to the Coquihalla? That's been done in a few other places I think.

From what I understand it wasn't changed because the communities along the old highway were worried it would cost them tourism. I have no idea where I heard this from though so take it with a grain of salt.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If BC does that, Ontario should follow suit too by moving the TCH Central-Ontario-Route designation onto 400 and 401 from 12 and 7.
In Quebec though, the designation will need to follow A20 then A30 to join A40.

The ON 7/12 alignment is the ultimate example of a compromise that serves nobody. According to "A Road for Canada", the provincial government wanted the TCH to travel further south through the more populated areas while the federal government wanted the TCH to go further north and connect more directly to western Canada. A compromise was reached where the Trans-Canada went in the mushy middle (i.e. ON 7). The problem is that I'm not aware of any cross-country traffic that uses the Central Ontario route. ON 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was later added to the Trans-Canada anyway, while the majority of regional traffic from southern Ontario uses ON 401. IMO, the TCH should be rerouted to ON 400 & 401 through Toronto, while the ON 12 & 7 could be redesignated as a historical or scenic route for tourist purposes. The same could go for the Coquihalla vs. Fraser Canyon between Hope and Kamloops.

As for A-30 through Montreal, personally I'm partial towards the TCH going through major cities as opposed completely bypassing them, since they can function as a destination. A-30 could still be added to the TCH, but I would still want to maintain A-40/A-25/A-20 through Montreal. See Winnipeg as an example, with TCH 1 and TCH 100, only both routes are freeways.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

The ON 7/12 alignment is the ultimate example of a compromise that serves nobody. According to "A Road for Canada", the provincial government wanted the TCH to travel further south through the more populated areas while the federal government wanted the TCH to go further north and connect more directly to western Canada. A compromise was reached where the Trans-Canada went in the mushy middle (i.e. ON 7). The problem is that I'm not aware of any cross-country traffic that uses the Central Ontario route. ON 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was later added to the Trans-Canada anyway, while the majority of regional traffic from southern Ontario uses ON 401. IMO, the TCH should be rerouted to ON 400 & 401 through Toronto, while the ON 12 & 7 could be redesignated as a historical or scenic route for tourist purposes. The same could go for the Coquihalla vs. Fraser Canyon between Hope and Kamloops.

As for A-30 through Montreal, personally I'm partial towards the TCH going through major cities as opposed completely bypassing them, since they can function as a destination. A-30 could still be added to the TCH, but I would still want to maintain A-40/A-25/A-20 through Montreal. See Winnipeg as an example, with TCH 1 and TCH 100, only both routes are freeways.

I like it the way it is, as a pointed message to Toronto that the rest of the country can get along just fine without it.

[1overcosc]

When Ontario built the freeway connecting Ottawa to Montreal in the 1970s, the TCH designation continued to be along the old 2 lane highway until 1998--the only reason why it was then changed was because that old 2 lane highway was about to be downloaded from the province to the local municipalities, and the federal government didn't want the TCH to be a local road.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

From what I understand it wasn't changed because the communities along the old highway were worried it would cost them tourism. I have no idea where I heard this from though so take it with a grain of salt.

spences bridge is really dead now compared to how it used to be. I don't think there is a gas station or restaurant on the highway anymore. Cache Creek too is a lot quieter.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

spences bridge is really dead now compared to how it used to be. I don't think there is a gas station or restaurant on the highway anymore. Cache Creek too is a lot quieter.

The new highway was initially a toll road, which was one reason the TCH designation didn't change. But I wouldn't doubt that it had as much or more to do with the wishes of the communities along the traditional route.

[GreaterMontréal]

the A30 is a tolled highway,

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the A30 is a tolled highway,

That's why I said A20 - A30 - A40.
At least that's what I would do to avoid the non-freeway portion of A20 or the tolls.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Andy6

The new highway was initially a toll road, which was one reason the TCH designation didn't change. But I wouldn't doubt that it had as much or more to do with the wishes of the communities along the traditional route.

The Cobequid Pass on 104 in Nova Scotia is tolled, and it is part of the TCH.