Please don't let them copy that design!

[crow]

ask holst - check out their webpage - ask john carroll - ask the real estate brokers - debbie thomas - ask pdx how he knows - my guess is it is conjecture. and you call me an idiot, but the blog is the best place for idiots like you to pretend you know a micron of what you are talking about. believe what you want - i don't need to prove anything to you, and you can chose to believe whatever you like, that is the great part of being all grown up.

[kvalk]

you still haven't answered the question. What was your role in the process? Are you afraid GBD will fire you for blogging on company time?

actually I know where PDX city-state gets his info. it's pretty reliable.

[PDX City-State]

actually the difference between the buildings you mention and the Edge Lofts, is that one particular firm did all the others. holst had very little to do with the Edge Lofts beyond massing done at the beginning. if you knew what you were talking about you would not make such inaccurate statements.

John Carrol initially hired Holst to work through design development. Like most of his projects, Carrol had in his mind what the building should look like, and when Holst didn't simply draw that for him, he got upset, and finally had GBD come into the project earlier than expected. The reality is that Holst did much more than massing; they drew the elevations eventually dropped off to the less talented design staff at GBD. In the end I think Carroll used Holst to get his new modern style through Design Review, even though they were already done working on the project by the time design review came along, he made sure to tell the commission that Holst was part of the project. Sounds familiar--eh Crow. You would know--you work for GBD right? Nice yellow brick on the Meriwether by the way. Were they out of the purple?

You're right about blogging. You never know who you're talking to.

[crow]

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

John Carrol initially hired Holst to work through design development. Like most of his projects, Carrol had in his mind what the building should look like, and when Holst didn't simply draw that for him, he got upset, and finally had GBD come into the project earlier than expected. The reality is that Holst did much more than massing; they drew the elevations eventually dropped off to the less talented design staff at GBD.

it seems you are more in the know than i, so i cannot understand first of all why you give so much credit to holst for the project? it appears more to me that the egos were clashing, and the designers were having a difficult time synthesizing the problem and what the client was after. i did see some of the schematics and i did see the final schematic elevations. the final schematics were of widespread public circulation, and they were vastly improved upon. not my position to tell someone how to manage a client, or their ego, but i can't say i agree with you about the end result being lesser than what holst ended with or a less talented crew at GBD ended executing.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

In the end I think Carroll used Holst to get his new modern style through Design Review, even though they were already done working on the project by the time design review came along, he made sure to tell the commission that Holst was part of the project.

actually i thought you were on a roll, but design review was gbd and john carroll. it is difficult to say how the relationship ended, but my guess it was not very sweet and gbd produced something that john carroll would take to design review and eventually build.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

Sounds familiar--eh Crow. You would know--you work for GBD right?

wrong - but i have some very close friends at both offices. either you do/did, or you work for holst - but either way, your initial comments on the buildings done by john carrolll are purely subjective, and if you want to use your insight, then at least represent it accurately for the benefit of everyone.

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

Nice yellow brick on the Meriwether by the way. Were they out of the purple?

i guess you are full of it, and just like throwing it around. i seem recall that meriwhether was in fact a project that was a partnership between two firms, where the design partner WAS the design lead - Busby. the yellow is precast not brick - although it is hard to tell if you are being an ass or just ignorant. the solid material and glass for that mater on that building is horrible, but you have to talk once again to the developers, and designers about those choices. i am sure better materials were more desirable, but cost and pioneering developments probably influenced material choices.?

you might say edge was to gbd as williams somona was to holst. both got built, and both executed the desires of the client. but what would you know about that - right?

Originally Posted by PDX City-State

You're right about blogging. You never know who you're talking to.

[PDX City-State]

your initial comments on the buildings done by john carrolll are purely subjective

Everything is purely subjective. If you want to know the truth, I just wanted to use the word "abortion" to describe a building and felt Ankrom was the most worthy recipient.

although it is hard to tell if you are being an ass or just ignorant.

I am probably one or the other--or perhaps both.

i can't say i agree with you about the end result being lesser than what holst ended with or a less talented crew at GBD ended executing.

That, like my above statement, was purely subjective. And there is no way that I'm wrong

And by the way, I don't work for Holst and never have. I'm not an architect. I also know and have known people in both offices. Portland is small--info goes around. Development projects as you probably know are all about the crashing of egos--and John Carrol happens to have a big one. My hats off to him--it's served him well. He likely drives a nicer car than I do.