NFL coming to Toronto - Page 4

RTD · #61 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Holy Toronto-bashing thread Batman!

Geez people from Toronto are sensitive!

The_Architect · #62 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTD

Geez people from Toronto are sensitive!

There's a bit of a difference between talking about why Winnipeg won't get an NHL franchise, including a small market, small arena, and the NHL not wanting to relocate, and calling Torontonians pussies and not real fans. So no, not sensitive, just amazed at the unwarranted Toronto hate.

RTD · #63 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

There's a bit of a difference between talking about why Winnipeg won't get an NHL franchise, including a small market, small arena, and the NHL not wanting to relocate, and calling Torontonians pussies and not real fans. So no, not sensitive, just amazed at the unwarranted Toronto hate.

Wrong. When people continue with the "small market, small arena, no corporate sponsorship, etc" with regards to not allowing Winnipeg an NHL team, despite the fact that this has ALL BEEN PROVEN WRONG by the NHL themselves, just to push certain people's buttons, then no, there isn't a big difference between trying to minimize Winnipeg's capabilities vs. minimizing Toronto's capabilities.

But according to you, it's all about the hate here, so I'll back off now and let the "Toronto-centric bashing" continue.

Mister F · #64 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovan

If the Leafs can't muster up fanatical fan support in Toronto, what makes anyone think that the NFL can?

Oh they get fanatical support...you just have to go to Buffalo, Ottawa and Montreal to see it.

BretttheRiderFan · #65 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

Ya, big difference though. How often do people in England get to see an NFL game? People in Southern Ontario can just go to Buffalo or Detroit to watch games for dirt cheap. They dont have to spend big bucks to watch a game in TO where they don't care about either team.

You wanna know if Southern Ontario cares about the NFL? Look at the front page of the newspapers today and the day after the Super Bowl. Watch the sports news and see which games get mentioned first. Check the television ratings every weekend during football season and check to see how many people are watching the Super Bowl.

And remember, people are following this league when it doesn't even have a Canadian team in it. You can bet your sweet bippy they'll care even more if the NFL had a team in Toronto.

I work in Toronto and I know at least 100 people who follow the NFL, but know only 2 that follow the CFL.

Funny, seeing as how the Argos get the biggest crowds of any sports team in your city, and the last time the Skydome was sold out for a sporting event was for the Grey Cup 4 years ago

BretttheRiderFan · #66 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

There's a bit of a difference between talking about why Winnipeg won't get an NHL franchise, including a small market, small arena, and the NHL not wanting to relocate, and calling Torontonians pussies and not real fans. So no, not sensitive, just amazed at the unwarranted Toronto hate.

I'd say it's pretty warranted

Comments like "I don't want to sit out in the cold and watch football while the rest of the continent has no problem with it", and the simple fact that Toronto sports teams pull in far less fan support than other cities of similar size, it's no wonder we love to bash Toronto so much.

BretttheRiderFan · #67 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

It's super easy to FOLLOW the NFL because that is free but ya gotta put your money where your mouth is and not enough Torontonians buy football tickets for CFL or NFL. Toronto with such a huge immigrant population has no roots to pro football but it does to soccer and cricket!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto

This whole immigrant excuse is really lame

The city of Toronto is 49.9% foreign born

I don't know the stats for the the metro area, but I'm sure those figures would be a bit lower in the Toronto CMA

So let's say not one immigrant ever watches NFL, CFL, NHL, or MLB, or NBA

That is still a market of nearly 3 million born and bred Canadians

The vast majority of children of immigrants are quickly immersed into the greater Canadian culture (I live in Edmonton and the biggest Eskimo and Oiler fanatic I know is East Indian)

As for cricket or soccer being an easier sell in Toronto than the NFL or other North American sports, not a chance

Of the large ethnic groups in Toronto, the ones where cricket is a traditional sport are South Asians, which make up 12% of the city's population

And with the level of cricket coverage we have in this country, I think it's safe to say an NFL game would have more potential support than a cricket match, and I'm sure the only way a cricket match would be a big enough success is if India is playing

As for soccer, well the bigger immigrant groups in Toronto like South Asians, Chinese, Filipinos, South East Asians aren't hot spots for the sport

The big communities that are crazy for soccer are the Italians, Latin Americans, and other European immigrants

These groups aren't even close to being as wide a demographic as the home-born Canadian market is in Toronto

MonkeyRonin · #68 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

Toronto...has no roots to pro football

No roots? The Argonauts are the oldest pro football team in North America.

The_Architect · #69 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 2:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

It's super easy to FOLLOW the NFL because that is free but ya gotta put your money where your mouth is and not enough Torontonians buy football tickets for CFL or NFL. Toronto with such a huge immigrant population has no roots to pro football but it does to soccer and cricket!

The first recorded game of football was at the University of Toronto..

Highinthesky · #70 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Funny, seeing as how the Argos get the biggest crowds of any sports team in your city, and the last time the Skydome was sold out for a sporting event was for the Grey Cup 4 years ago

The Argos get the biggest crowds in the city? See this is the problem with taking Averages. In 2010 the Argos had 8 homes games and averaged 21,715 fans a game with the largest single game attendance being 24,493.
The Blue Jays played 81 games and averaged 20,068 fans a game yet their highest single game attendance was 46,321. In fact over the course of the season the Jays had 4 games in which they sold more than 40,000 tickets and another 8 in which they sold over 30,000. The Jays actually had 263% percent more games in which they sold more than the Argos best day in attedence, so in fact the Argos aren't even close to getting the biggest crowds in the city.

Jay in Cowtown · #71 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

I work in Toronto and I know at least 100 people who follow the NFL, but know only 2 that follow the CFL.

I'd say the NFL has a big following everywhere in Canada, not just S. Ontario. Like I said before, I actually know more people that went to NFL games this year than Stamps games (no bullshit), but most of the people I associate with are football fans and watch both leagues, only a few are exclusive to one or the other.

I understand alot of people in Toronto feel they are too "big league" for the 8 team CFL, and maybe so... but would the CFL survive if the Argo's went to London, Windsor or somewhere else in S. Ontario? If so, I could care less if Toronto gets an NFL team, I'd still cheer for the Texans anyway!!!

thurmas · #72 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:56 PM**

Don't spin my words I said the immigrant community in Toronto has no roots to pro football I didn't say the city itself. The Argos are what 140 years old. What I don't understand is cities like Vancouver and Montreal with just as many if not more attractions than Toronto has for the entertainment dollar support their CFL teams while Toronto does not.Hopefully David Brayley will come up with a good long term plan.

yaletown_fella · #73 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 4:56 PM**

Toronto's problem is it always gets clowns managing the team.
It''s kind of petty to bash the people who work to keep half the country afloat through equalization, no?
Toronto isn't alone in this respect. Look at the NBA attendance in Atlanta.
If you got rid of salary cap in major league sports both Toronto and Atlanta would be selling out stadiums and winning 2x as much.

MrOilers · #74 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:20 PM**

Here's why NFL in Toronto makes no sense:

- Toronto already has a football team, and fans don't even fill Rogers Center 1/2 full to watch them (don't think that the NFL doesn't pay attention to that)
- Toronto doesn't have an NFL-caliber stadium, and they don't sell out the NFL games played there
- NFL TV ratings do well in Canada without any Canadian-based NFL teams
- There are viable markets in the USA where football is huge, but still without NFL teams (Los Angeles, San Antonio)
- And finally, the NFL recognizes that the CFL is good for the NFL. Firstly, the CFL is really the only successful and self-sustaining gridiron football league outside the USA. Quite a few players move betwen leagues (the CFL has been a better league for the sport than the European NFL) and Toronto is the CFL's biggest market. Most Canadian football fans follow both leagues (CFL maintains interest in football here up in Canada), and losing Toronto's CFL team would hurt the football fan base all across Canada (which is currently growing, largely in part due to the CFL finding new-found success). Without the CFL, fewer people in Canada (and there are millions of them outside of Toronto) would get to see football live, and would lose interest in the sport, which would likely hurt the NFLs TV gravy train in Canada.

Like a previous poster said, the NFL will likely expand to Mexico City (a country that has no gridiron football, and a massive potential new market) before it even considers moving into Canada.

MrOilers · #75 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

Look at the NBA attendance in Atlanta.

Atlanta's sports market is far, far different from Toronto.

Pro sports in Atlanta do OK, but the Braves, Falcons, and Hawks still often have difficulty filling the seats no matter how successful the teams are doing, nor who the owners are. Amateur sports in Atlanta are much more popular than pro sports, for whatever reason.

Toronto just doesn't like football very much. Not enough to convince anyone that they deserve an NFL franchise, anyway.

Berklon · #76 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius

That doesn't mean there's not any CFL fans either. People tend to bond with people with common interests. It doesn't surprise me that an NFL fan first and foremost would be friends with other NFL fans. Just like the opposite would be true.

I agree with you on that point, but In my scenario all these people are co-workers. They aren't bonded together on a personal level... they're here due to their job. So it's a random sample of people who work in an office environment.

Acajack · #77 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Like a previous poster said, the NFL will likely expand to Mexico City (a country that has no gridiron football, and a massive potential new market) before it even considers moving into Canada.

The NFL would NEVER expand into Mexico. The players' union would go absolutely nuts at this prospect! Though it is true that good attendance at NFL games in Mexico - with much less of a gridiron football tradition than Canada - does make Toronto look comparatively bad in its NFL flirtations.

Acajack · #78 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

It''s kind of petty to bash the people who work to keep half the country afloat through equalization, no?
.

WTF!?!?! Equalization! In a discussion about the NFL in Toronto????????? Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highinthesky · #79 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:42 PM**

The comparisons of CFL attendance in Toronto or how the Bills draw, a bad team people from Toronto can drive about 2 hours to see anyway, to how an NFL team would do in Toronto are really stupid. Please stop now.

Its like saying the NHL won't make it in Winnipeg because the Moose can't sell out the MTS Centre for every game.

drew · #80 Posted **Jan 25, 2011, 5:57 PM**

^ this is true.