High Speed Rail in Canada

[rbt]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Anybody in the know about why an EA takes 6 goddamn fucking years?

Hmm. I believe the EA needs to give a firm list of property expropriations. This requires both fully engineering the line and consideration of how it will be constructed (temporary land expropriations).

Some pieces like the electrical substations do not fall under the accelerated transit EA process, though I think the HSR itself should be.

I might have guessed 3 years for all of that though. The full HSR line is much simpler, and cheaper, than the Eglinton LRT.


I don't think it'll survive 6 years of politics unless Ontario has a large budget surplus by the next election.

[waterloowarrior]

The feasibility study says 3-4 years to plan and approve, then 3-4 years to build and commission.

[eemy]

I got the impression that Del Duca's quotation was out of context and that the 6 years encompassed more than just the EA. Waterloowarrior's point seems to support that.

[1overcosc]

99% sure that's 6 years until shovels in the ground. Meaning 6 years for an EA, property acquisition, ant tendering. Reality in 10 or 11 years. That's about the normal timeframe for a major transit project, a decade from conception to ribbon cutting (look at the Spadina line, Confederation Line, etc.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

99% sure that's 6 years until shovels in the ground. Meaning 6 years for an EA, property acquisition, ant tendering. Reality in 10 or 11 years. That's about the normal timeframe for a major transit project, a decade from conception to ribbon cutting (look at the Spadina line, Confederation Line, etc.)

Perfect timing for it to become a central issue in the next provincial election!

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Perfect timing for it to become a central issue in the next provincial election!

By then, it will be too far along for any party to come along and cancel it though, unless there are enormous cost overruns.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

By then, it will be too far along for any party to come along and cancel it though, unless there are enormous cost overruns.

Don't be so sure. Remember the filling in of the Eglinton subway in 1995.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Don't be so sure. Remember the filling in of the Eglinton subway in 1995.

Heck, remember the gas plants!

Actually, the timing suggests to me that the Liberals are thinking ahead to perhaps luring the Conservatives into opposing the project in the next campaign. Maybe I give them too much credit?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Heck, remember the gas plants!

Actually, the timing suggests to me that the Liberals are thinking ahead to perhaps luring the Conservatives into opposing the project in the next campaign. Maybe I give them too much credit?

That begs the question: why aren't the usual opponents to this more vocal?

I thought the Ontario Conservatives would be all over this as a pork project, and the Dippers all over this as a project that helps the business elite rather than working families?

My knowledge of Ontario politics is starting to get a bit rusty, so I could be reading this entirely wrong, but either the opposition parties are in worse shape than I thought, or the HSR is a brilliant piece of Liberal realpolitik because it's being built in ridings that the Ontario PCs can't afford to lose, and helps constituencies (business professionals, tech industry around KW) in these areas that the PCs are desperately trying to court.

[1overcosc]

None of the areas that are projected to have HSR stations are held by the PCs.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

None of the areas that are projected to have HSR stations are held by the PCs.

Considering the Liberals hold all of one seat in SW Ontario, that means they are pushing into NDP territory for stations.

I would be really mad if I were in northern Ontario, who lost their rail link (albeit understandable due to the huge subsidy required - $400+ per passenger, might as well buy those who used it new cars at that rate) seeing all these go forward.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I thought the Ontario Conservatives would be all over this as a pork project, and the Dippers all over this as a project that helps the business elite rather than working families?

Well that's exactly what the two parties would normally say. But they're kinda dead right now, both of them. PCs are waiting for a leadership convention, and the NDP are in the midst of obsessing over little things.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Well that's exactly what the two parties would normally say. But they're kinda dead right now, both of them. PCs are waiting for a leadership convention, and the NDP are in the midst of obsessing over little things.

I think the party's urban Red Tories will want it to stand at the most (if not openly support it), while individual MPP's and rural supporters will likely want the project killed.

[1overcosc]

The Ontario NDP are also being frustratingly partisan on the whole transportation/infrastructure issue. Ideologically, the NDP supports it. In the last election, they literally copied Wynne's transportation plans and made it their own platform. But what's frustrating, is instead of acknowledging this and supporting the Liberal plans, they've used Orwellian-esque double-thinkery to somehow claim that it's their own idea and the Liberals are anti-transit. I honestly would not be surprised at this point if the NDP come out and announce that "we advocate the construction of a high speed rail link between London and Toronto and condemn the Wynne Liberals for failing to do the same". Yes, they are indeed that crazy. That's why I abandoned them (until earlier this year I was a card carrying member of the Ontario NDP).

[GlassCity]

High speed train proposed between Portland and Vancouver
Proposed commuter train would at travel at 290 km/h and cost more that $18B

A group based in Portland is lobbying local governments for a high speed train that would connect the Cascadia region, from Vancouver to Portland.

The proposed train would take passengers from Greater Vancouver to Seattle in less than an hour, and to Portland in less than two.

"It would be over 180 miles [290 kilometres] per hour and it would be on … it it's own corridor separate from freight rail," Brad Perkins — the co-founder and CEO of Cascadia High Speed Rail told The Early Edition's Rick Cluff.

Perkins said it would take a public-private partnership to fund the train, and the first phase of construction would only run between Seattle and Portland, which would cost from $18 billion to $22 billion, according to Perkins.

The second phase would continue the line into B.C.

[continues]

Read more and listen to interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...uver-1.2919486

I wonder how serious this is. The website made me nostalgic for 2004, but hey, if CBC picked up the story...

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

High speed train proposed between Portland and Vancouver
Proposed commuter train would at travel at 290 km/h and cost more that $18B

Read more and listen to interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...uver-1.2919486

I wonder how serious this is. The website made me nostalgic for 2004, but hey, if CBC picked up the story...

Just building a new right of way whether it is separate from freight or not would help since the current route is subject to so many landslides which results is closures of 48 hours each time. The Canadian federal government will have to dig deep to fund the replacement of the railway bridge over the Fraser River. That is something that needs to be done now regardless of what with HSR.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Just building a new right of way whether it is separate from freight or not would help since the current route is subject to so many landslides which results is closures of 48 hours each time. The Canadian federal government will have to dig deep to fund the replacement of the railway bridge over the Fraser River. That is something that needs to be done now regardless of what with HSR.

From what I've read, the States are planning or are in the process of making lots of improvements to the existing corridor on their side of the border, but Canada has refused to do anything here.

[ssiguy]

I can see the Portland to Seattle section but Vancouver not a chance.

The area between Seattle and Portland is a rather wide valley and not mountainous at all. The section from Sea/Van is very far more imposing and would require a bridge over the Fraser.

Also Vancouverites don't have a "train mindset" unlike people in the Corridor. I know that sounds weird but Vancouver has never really had train travel of any form, it's part of the psyche. Also for the Port/Sea section it would be faster than driving for most but not for most Vancouverites as the end station will be downtown which is the far corner of the metro area. Also the area between the two cities is too rugged to allow for speeds high enough to make it worth someone's while.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

From what I've read, the States are planning or are in the process of making lots of improvements to the existing corridor on their side of the border, but Canada has refused to do anything here.

The feds only want to fund projects that they can split with the provinces and cities, because they are dragged into it and they get a bigger bang for their buck. Railways and maritime traffic are a federal responsibility so they should fund the majority of the bridge in conjunction with the railways themselves. The bridge replacement is required now and not becuase of additional passenger trains be they high speed or not. The Cons can't even take care of their own problems but love to tell the provinces what they should do.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I can see the Portland to Seattle section but Vancouver not a chance.

The area between Seattle and Portland is a rather wide valley and not mountainous at all. The section from Sea/Van is very far more imposing and would require a bridge over the Fraser.

Also Vancouverites don't have a "train mindset" unlike people in the Corridor. I know that sounds weird but Vancouver has never really had train travel of any form, it's part of the psyche. Also for the Port/Sea section it would be faster than driving for most but not for most Vancouverites as the end station will be downtown which is the far corner of the metro area. Also the area between the two cities is too rugged to allow for speeds high enough to make it worth someone's while.

Yes, but it is also worth noting that Vancouver primarily exists due to its revised choice as the Pacific terminus of the CPR (for a very short period, it was in Port Moody).

By 1881, the survey of Port Moody had begun. Both John Murray Sr. and Jr. assisted and, in fact, it was John Murray Jr. who named many of the streets after members of his family. The population quickly grew through the early 1880s. As the Western Terminus of the CPR almost everyone had high hopes that Port Moody would become a major west coast metropolis.

The railway was completed with the last spike driven at Craigellachie on November 7, 1885 and a train arriving at Port Moody the next day. The first scheduled passenger transcontinental train arrived on July 4, 1886, a date which is still celebrated during Golden Spike Days. Real estate prices soared, but soon fell flat when a branch line was built to Vancouver in 1887.

wikipedia