Is D.C.culturally Northern, Southern, or Both?

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by jg6544

--John F. Kennedy

Before knowing that, for some reason I used to attribute the quote to Mark Twain; just seems like something he'd say.

Originally Posted by jpdivola

DC's need for office space in a height constrained city decimated it's historic architecture, as central residential neighborhoods were absorbed by the growing office district.

Perhaps. There are actually a lot of historic buildings. Many of them appear from the street to be exactly the same size as new office buildings, and are built with the same zero side setbacks. A lot of the newer buildings use the same kind of neutral colored stone, or concrete. This has the effect of making a very uniform and somewhat monotonous streetwall, with historic stuff just kind of lost in it.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Exactly. Places change.

South Florida was once the deep South and culturally the same as Alabama. Now it's a blend of the Carribean and Long Island/New Jersey, and no one would compare it with Alabama.

Southern CA was once basically "Oklahoma West" and you still see a tiny hint in the remaining working class white enclaves (places like Lakewood and Torrance) and in the Christian Conservatism that characterized Orange County (Crystal Cathedral and the like). Nowadays, though, no one would liken LA to Tulsa.

Not to derail this thread but this is untrue. I'm from the northeast but grew up in SE Florida for most of my life and it wasn't southern in anyway at all except for pockets here & there in certain neighborhoods. Saying it was once comparable to Alabama culturally just boggles my mind!

[chris08876]

He might be thinking of Northern Florida and parts of the Panhandle, but definitely not S.Florida. Those areas culturally are more tied to Alabama and Georgia, and feel like the Deep South. S.Florida feels like a mix of the North and South. Its Northern influence is only increasing due to transplants. Now if we are talking about a time era before 1940, then it could be considered the "deep" South.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

Not to derail this thread but this is untrue. I'm from the northeast but grew up in SE Florida for most of my life and it wasn't southern in anyway at all except for pockets here & there in certain neighborhoods. Saying it was once comparable to Alabama culturally just boggles my mind!

How old are you? You would have to be pretty old (certainly pre-1950's) to have experienced South Florida prior to the Northeast migrations.

But I think it's a fair statement. Florida, as a whole was basically Alabama prior to air conditioning and the Snowbird phenomenon. The southern half of the state was basically empty.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

How old are you? You would have to be pretty old (certainly pre-1950's) to have experienced South Florida prior to the Northeast migrations.

But I think it's a fair statement. Florida, as a whole was basically Alabama prior to air conditioning and the Snowbird phenomenon. The southern half of the state was basically empty.

Most of SE Florida was developed by Northerners with Henry Flagler's FEC railway from Jax to Key West where he developed the cities of WPB, Ft. Lauderdale & Miami during the 1890's. He sold them as resort cities to wealthy Northerners so the Yankee vibe was there from the start.
SE Florida was never culturally southern from the beginning. I would rephrase what I bolded above which is Southern migration into SE Florida after the Northerners established it first.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The Northeast and the Midwest are both the North, but certainly they're separate subdivisions within it. Rustbelt issues are vastly different from Acela-corridor issues, for example.

There are plenty of Rust Belt-ish towns in the northeast corridor... Baltimore, Newark, Camden, Atlantic City, just to name a few.

[iheartthed]

I have never really thought of D.C. as southern. It doesn't resemble any other city that I associate with the South.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Crawford

How old are you? You would have to be pretty old (certainly pre-1950's) to have experienced South Florida prior to the Northeast migrations.

But I think it's a fair statement. Florida, as a whole was basically Alabama prior to air conditioning and the Snowbird phenomenon. The southern half of the state was basically empty.

bobdreamz is well known for this...anytime Florida is mentioned in connection with the South he has a crisis.

South Florida isn't exactly like the South in general and has a uniqueness much like other unique areas of the South, but that doesn't remove it from the region. Just like Maine isn't exactly like Pennsylvania, but it's still part of the Northeast. It's a stupid argument and some people are just terrified that their area is going to be associated with something southern.

Who really cares? (other than people like him) DC is a different discussion...it was never really far enough south to be considered part of the region, but was more culturally associated with the South historically. Now it isn't and can easily be part of it's actual geographical region - but I still see it as independent. It doesn't have to be part of either region.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I have never really thought of D.C. as southern. It doesn't resemble any other city that I associate with the South.

It doesn't really resemble any other US city.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

bobdreamz always does this...anytime Florida is mentioned in connection with the South he has a crisis.

South Florida isn't exactly like the South in general and has a uniqueness much like other unique areas of the South, but that doesn't remove it from the region. Just like Maine isn't exactly like Pennsylvania, but it's still part of the Northeast. It's a stupid argument and some people are just terrorized that their area is going to be associated with something southern.

Who really cares? (other than people like him) DC is a different discussion...it was never really far enough south to be considered part of the region, but was more culturally associated with the South historically. Now it isn't and can easily be part of it's actual geographical region - but I still see it as independent. It doesn't have to be part of either region.

I have a crisis with facts especially when somebody describes SE Florida as to being culturally equivalent at one time to Alabama. I was merely responding to a post that said so. Carry on.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

I have a crisis with facts especially when somebody describes SE Florida as to being culturally equivalent at one time to Alabama. I was merely responding to a post that said so. Carry on.

Yeah that statement was a bit off the mark. Now once it began developing, it certainly adopted elements of Southern culture, being located in a Southern state, but characterizing it as being similar to Alabama historically isn't accurate.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

It doesn't really resemble any other US city.

CBD aside, it resembles Brooklyn imo.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Exactly. Places change.

South Florida was once the deep South and culturally the same as Alabama. Now it's a blend of the Carribean and Long Island/New Jersey, and no one would compare it with Alabama.

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with bobdreamz. South Florida never was as extremely racist as major parts of Alabama. South Florida has a Southern culture with a great African American, presence and other positive Southern aspects (because the South isn't synonymous with everything that is wrong with America), but it wasn't too far from the Northeast in other factors.

People need to understand that "Southern" "Racist" Florida was largely North Florida with the Panhandle. There was a time around the Civil War that the vast majority of the state's population was not that far from the Georgia and Alabama borders. South Florida is largely a product of the North and urban southerners and the rest of the state was filled with freed africans, native americans, and europeans before it joined the US. Hell, if Florida became more developed earlier without much influence from the South, it would have been more similar to the North and the West.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by RCDC

CBD aside, it resembles Brooklyn imo.

Brooklyn and DC don't share much of anything, IMO. They're kind of polar opposites in the urban Northeast Corridor context. Boston would be the closest NE Corridor equivalent to DC, and even that's a stretch.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with bobdreamz. South Florida never was as extremely racist as major parts of Alabama. South Florida has a Southern culture with a great African American, presence and other positive Southern aspects (because the South isn't synonymous with everything that is wrong with America), but it wasn't too far from the Northeast in other factors.

People need to understand that "Southern" "Racist" Florida was largely North Florida with the Panhandle. There was a time around the Civil War that the vast majority of the state's population was not that far from the Georgia and Alabama borders. South Florida is largely a product of the North and urban southerners and the rest of the state was filled with freed africans, native americans, and europeans before it joined the US. Hell, if Florida became more developed earlier without much influence from the South, it would have been more similar to the North and the West.

I appreciate your succint analysis! Also you forgot the Bahamians who built Flagler's FEC railroad who established the "Black Grove" in Miami with their shotgun houses when Miami was founded. Miami has a "Goombay" festival to celebrate the Bahamian's contributions to the founding of SE FL.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictiona...ombay+Festival

That being said I still don't consider DC a "Southern" city.

[vandelay]

You all might find this article interesting and topical:

http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine...p-in-arms.html

[Nouvellecosse]

Nova Scotia is most certainly not part of "Yankeedom" I agree that there are sometimes similarities across the border, but to pretend it's invisible is ridiculous.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with bobdreamz. South Florida never was as extremely racist as major parts of Alabama. South Florida has a Southern culture with a great African American, presence and other positive Southern aspects (because the South isn't synonymous with everything that is wrong with America), but it wasn't too far from the Northeast in other factors.

If we can bypass the hyperbole about Alabama, South Florida was every bit as racist and conservative as other parts of the south (if my parents and grandparents are to be believed). Bob is right that it was largely founded by Northerners, but a large migration from Georgia and Alabama (both whites and blacks) laid the cultural groundwork for years to come.

Miami has always been a port city and a frontier cit. Of course it's going to be different from the inland parts of the country or the south, but that doesn't make it any less so.

There's very very little of that southern veneer left here, but I believe we're still dealing with the bones of it.

Just my thoughts. Miamuh indeed.

[TexasBoi]

Originally Posted by vandelay

You all might find this article interesting and topical:

http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine...p-in-arms.html

Houston part of the Deep South? Not sure I agree with that. In fact, I don't think the Deep South red should go that far into Texas. Pretty much only Deep East Texas is an extension of the Deep South.

DC. I feel like it's neither entirely Northern or Southern. I've met some people from the Northeast that say DC is Southern. I've met many from the South that said DC is Northern. Born and raised people in DC don't represent either.

[Cirrus]

I appreciate the attempt on that map, but calling Baltimore the same region as Baca County, Colorado is not a defensible proposal.

I do think it would be fun to make my own regions map like that, though.