HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #721  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2018, 10:49 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
i lived for 3 years in africa, a year in Haiti, and a year in honduras during some of the prime working years of my life to practice what i preach. i continue to support the causes i care about through donations i make from my day job, and volunteerism on the side (currently involved with Heartland Alliance and various homeless outreach programs). if you need validation from me to make choices in your own life or become involved in causes that actively work to make the world less shitty for more people, that says more about you. the thing is, i fully acknowledge the system is shit/cruel/unfair/exploitative and would be thrilled to see it dismantled and replaced. i suspect you dont feel that way though
Blah blah blah gobble gobble

Nonsense. Anybody can volunteer and donate, and it’s great you did and do. Perhaps some property owners out there are doing the same?

But when you’re talking about forcing a reduction in revenue in a person’s livelihood, then you need to be willing to take the same. If you can’t take a mandatory pay cut to help the poor—then go to hell for telling others to do the same.
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #722  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2018, 11:25 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,612
I do. It's called taxes. The issue is the allocation. I'd be the first to applaud a 50% reduction in military spending in tandem with higher taxes on the wealthy, redirected at social programs, housing grants, and improved education systems serving underserved, neglected, poor, and traditionally exploited individuals

A little humbleness and acknowledgment for why you are where you are in life, and for why other people are at systematic disadvantages to achieve the same thing, really wouldn't hurt you. But you seem to struggle even with that, because it would be acknowledging that American Dream is and always has been a lie that excludes vast portions of this country

Last edited by Via Chicago; Feb 27, 2018 at 11:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #723  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2018, 11:51 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,450
Guys the entire origins of poverty debate is horribly off topic. The facts don't lie: Chicago has a plethora of affordable housing within a 10 minute walk of the L. That is a fact. If you can show me that even half the land in the city within that transit radius rents for $1.50 or more per square foot a month then I will actually eat my shorts and post a video here.

In terms of "exaggerating the attractiveness of and area", whatever that means... Lagunitas employs 250 people, Cinespace employs over 2,000. There's two hospitals on the park which each employ several hundred more. There is even a freaking Metra Stop. There is a one Michelin star restaurant a few blocks North on Western and Working Bikes a few blocks South on Western. Riotfest showcases the neighborhood to 70k hipsters per day for three days every year so you can't claim it's some sort of secret area. There are even grocery stores here which Logan Square doesnt even have.

So what's the point? Most neighborhoods that have developed and increased in price don't or didn't have these kinds of employment centers, attractions, and amenities. Some still don't. Yet prices are still incredibly affordable in this area. This isn't a matter of whether this area will develop which obviously I think it will. It's a matter of the fact that affordable areas this close to transit and downtown exist all over the city. There is a virtually endless supply of areas like this so much that buildings like the ones I own exist in areas as attractive as where they do.


Also as a side note, I started with $5000 I saved and a $38,000/yr job. Used an FHA loan for the first property and renovated myself rolling my investment over and over again. The only help got from family aside from a good upbringing and education was a week here and there of free labor from my Dad who was unemployed for like 4-5 years during the recession.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #724  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 12:21 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
I do. It's called taxes. The issue is the allocation. I'd be the first to applaud a 50% reduction in military spending in tandem with higher taxes on the wealthy, redirected at social programs, housing grants, and improved education systems serving underserved, neglected, poor, and traditionally exploited individuals

A little humbleness and acknowledgment for why you are where you are in life, and for why other people are at systematic disadvantages to achieve the same thing, really wouldn't hurt you. But you seem to struggle even with that, because it would be acknowledging that American Dream is and always has been a lie that excludes vast portions of this country
I do too. It’s called taxes. You want me to pay more? Then you too.

My invitation still stands. I’ll sweeten the deal: I’ll give away a rent free apartment in east Lakeview to an underprivileged family. And you give them 30% of your salary. Yet you keep sidestepping my offer with your patronizing lectures about “humility” and “acknowledgement of suffering”, as if your words mean anything.
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #725  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 12:23 AM
Skyguy_7 Skyguy_7 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
1. Don't do drugs
2. Don't have kids you can't afford
3. Read. Read. Read.
It ain't pretty, and most people are not willing to put in the work, but it's not hard.
It was a pleasure reading your insight and I appreciate the Mods permitting this dialogue today. It’s an important discussion.

I’d wish you continued success in your future endeavors, but considering your first three keys and the absence of any ‘woe is me’ victim mentality, your continued success is inevitable. Cheers, sir or madam.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #726  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 12:34 AM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
, as if your words mean anything.

Ok Mr 14,000 posts.

Quote:
I do too. It’s called taxes. You want me to pay more? [I]Then you too
And I'm sure you think that 30% of a 30k income is the same thing as 30% of a 300,000 income, and carries the same weight and impact for those respective individuals

I have no problem with increased taxes. I actually think they're needed. I do have an issue with people who are responsible and benefit from creating structural inequality expecting those who suffer as a result to shoulder disproportionate shares of the burden, while they largely benefit from that exploitation

So yea, let me know your net worth, monthly income, and where it falls in relation to Americans as a whole we can go from there in drawing up a fair proposal

Last edited by Via Chicago; Feb 28, 2018 at 12:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #727  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 1:12 AM
Rooster slayer Rooster slayer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: The Fresh Coast
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
i mean, i do think theres a fair point that if we're talking about conversions, most of the down conversions are likely vintage 2 flats that otherwise would have been more affordable to rent, being turned into fancy SFHs. these are the types of rentals most prevalent in neighborhoods on the north side that would have given a person who couldnt afford a top of the line building, a way to still live in a more expensive neighborhood. these served as an important bedrock of the chicago rental market for a long time. now however as mentioned, those are being replaced with top of the line units in much fancier, larger, newer buildings charging top of the line rent. the person who could afford an $800-900 unit in an older building probably cant easily just be absorbed into a new building charging 2-3 times as much. it also continues the process of pushing Mom and Pop landlords out of the business, and replacing it more with large corporate-owned entities in neighborhoods. i think its detrimental to communities in general.
Agree, especially and this makes me think of Airbnb and other homestays:

" it also continues the process of pushing Mom and Pop landlords out of the business, and replacing it more with large corporate-owned entities in neighborhoods. i think its detrimental to communities in general."
__________________
The ones who love us best are the ones we'll lay to rest and visit their graves on holidays at best" - Paul Westerberg
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #728  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 1:29 AM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcp View Post
That's a lot of relativism
I would agree completely! Now we're getting somewhere
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #729  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 1:40 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
Ok Mr 14,000 posts.



And I'm sure you think that 30% of a 30k income is the same thing as 30% of a 300,000 income, and carries the same weight and impact for those respective individuals

I have no problem with increased taxes. I actually think they're needed. I do have an issue with people who are responsible and benefit from creating structural inequality expecting those who suffer as a result to shoulder disproportionate shares of the burden, while they largely benefit from that exploitation

So yea, let me know your net worth, monthly income, and where it falls in relation to Americans as a whole we can go from there in drawing up a fair proposal
Ok, so here is what I propose to address your concerns:

I own a 6 flat in E Lakeview, gorgeous building near the lakefront, and have a vacant 3 bed/1 bath. Assuming it rents for $2900:

$2900 X 12 = approx. $35k per year

Your reported pay is $30k. Multiply by 30% = $9k per year.

To the same poor, unfortunate family whom the world is working against, I will give away an apartment and you give them 30% of your salary. We won't ask any questions, we'll just do it out of the goodness of our hearts.

That's my $35k against your $9k. I'm contributing WAY more, which is what you are asking me to do.

Do we have a deal?
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #730  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 4:33 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
because hes overstating the attractiveness of those "amenities". the average person (or lets be real, the "gentry", since thats the only demographic here anyone seems to care about) has no reason to live directly near a backlot production facility, or park that hosts a one weekend a year festival, in a neighborhood that otherwise still has legitimate crime and gang issues. thats not to say it isnt an adequate place for lots of people to live for lots of people but lagunitas or riot fest has little to nothing to do with it.
Right on schedule:

Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Speaking of zoning (LOL!) a few new applications came in that I can see (probably more tomorrow):

1) Kind of cool looking older 3 story building at 2719-25 W Cermak (Cermak and ~ California) is looking to get approval to put 16 units on the 2nd and 3rd floors - keep the ground floor retail:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/27...!4d-87.6939348
This is just one in a pipeline of devlopments for this area that have flown under the radar. The building across the street just had the second floor corregated metal torn off and the warehouse loft space turned to office. The building on the NE corner of California and Cermak is being gutted too.

But again, this change isn't hurting anyone, if anything those displaced with gradually migrate to yet another undervalued area near the train.

Also, I don't think anyone is crying for the abulitas in Pilsen getting paid $900k for a 6 unit building they bought for $50k 30 years ago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #731  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 8:43 AM
JK47 JK47 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Being trapped in poverty is a state of mind, most able body people are not trapped, they just choose not to do what is necessary, or do not know what to do. I see it virtually every time I speak to people from my old neighborhood (Washington Heights, Manhattan)...The vast majority of people I know don't want to work hard labor jobs (and if you have no education, that is what your options are), here is the quick and dirty on how to get out of poverty:

1. Don't do drugs
2. Don't have kids you can't afford
3. Read. Read. Read. Every book/website you can on how to make money, be financially savvy, etc...I'd recommend Rich Dad Poor Dad to start.
4. Get a job, any job really. Fast food, Construction, Garbage Man (or better yet, all of the above)
5. Apply for a credit card to establish credit, and put every purchase you make on it, and pay off immediately.
6. Make a budget...What are your absolute necessary monthly expenses? How much do you make? do you have enough? If not, get roommates, work more hours, go door to door asking to shovel snow, do yard work (I did this for 6 years as a kid)
7. Save. Save. Save. After a few years, you've probably saved enough for downpayment on an FHA loan, and have built some credit.
8. Buy a house, and get roommates. Have a 3 bed house with a basement? rent out all of the rooms and rent a room in the basement, you'll probably live for free.
9. Make improvements to house over time.

It ain't pretty, and most people are not willing to put in the work, but it's not hard.

What a load of bull. I've seen this before though...you're one of those fellas that managed to reach escape velocity, thinks its super easy, and wonders why others can't do the same.

1. Don't do drugs - While avoidable it is, like alcohol, often abused by people that are trapped in economic circumstances that they cannot improve. A temporary escape from grim reality.
2. Don't have kids you can't afford - Easier said than done given the limited access to healthcare and the poor quality of education provided to our poorest families. Without knowledge about reproductive health and access to the means to act on that knowledge you can't expect better outcomes.
3. Read, read, read - Again, educational opportunities for the poor are view, limited, and poor in quality. Libraries while free often don't have hours that work for poor citizens who need to work multiple jobs to sustain themselves. It also assumes that they are in a position to actually get to the library since transportation is often an issue for the poor. Access to the internet is also an issue given the expense of the connection and the cost of the hardware. Likewise, the time spent on sustainment activities limits their ability to engage in enrichment activities.
4. Get a job - As above the kind of jobs available to the poor don't provide the level of support needed to sustain themselves; the work harder and longer for less. That kind of work will leave little to know time to seriously pursue an education.
5. Apply for a Credit Card - You'll need a source of income for that. Irregular or temprorary work won't cut it. Furthermore, given the unstable nature of their income and the astronomical rates offered on those cards there is a high likelihood that they'll end up trapped in credit card debt as they turn to credit in order to bridge any gaps in income. All the more likely given the poor level of education and the complexity of the credit card terms.
6. Make a Budget - Often their needs exceed what income they have. There's only so much you can sacrifice when you're paying for cheap food, cheap housing, cheap or donated clothes, and no health care. Folks aren't poor because they blow their money on liquor and booze (often they're blowing money on liquor and booze when that money wouldn't have changed their level of indebtedness anyway).
7. Save - Save what exactly? If they're actually covering expenses month to month that'd be a miracle.
8. Buy a house - Using what as a down payment? Organs?
9. Make Improvements - Now I'm just laughing at you.

When you're born into poverty there are all sorts of structural and social hurdles to overcome. The economic and social issues associated with poverty give you a higher chance of being in a family with severe problems or disadvantages (absentee parent, single parent, divorced, substance abuse, mental health issues). Parents with little education are at a severe disadvantage when it comes to navigating he social structures needed to provide education to their child and providing the support required along the way. All the while there are a slew of environmental factors in impoverished areas that militate against attaining an education (in addition to the poor quality of educational institutions in such areas). Parent(s) working all hours just to support the household aren't in a position to provide guidance to their child and support the child's education. Crime and the unbalanced way it is enforced is a very real risk factor and the slightest misstep, leading to an encounter with police, can be a disaster that destroys any possibility of further educational or economic opportunities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #732  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 8:56 AM
JK47 JK47 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
So people who joined a gang as a teenager can't work?
Given they almost certainty that they have a criminal record to one degree or another...no they can't. Anything that requires a background check, which even fast food restaurants do now, will reject such applicants. Manual labor pays poor, has no benefits, takes enormous amounts of time, and is physically wearing (and subject to health risks exacerbating the lack of benefits).


Quote:
You have to want to get out of poverty, and until they want it enough and are willing to put in the work, they'll never get out.

Simplistic statements like this makes me think you don't even understand how you succeeded. You're a blind man telling us that's its smooth sailing if we just steer straight ahead all the while unaware of all the rocks in the way.


Quote:
Drive through the Ghetto, any ghetto, tell me how many people you see sitting on porches and standing on corners all hours of the day...Are they all waiting for a call back on a job? Unless you grew up in these neighborhoods, like me, you can't understand the poor me attitude and absolute unwillingness to do hard labor or unsexy jobs is.

Grew up in poor rural community. Familiar with nice places like New Haven, Springfield (Mass), East Boston, SE Washington. My sister spent almost a decade working in social & diversion programs attempting to stabilize people with mental health issues and place people in stable housing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #733  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 1:01 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,592
NM: Not worth continuing the OT conversation.

Last edited by Investing In Chicago; Feb 28, 2018 at 2:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #734  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 4:23 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Rahm should call up Delta's CEO and tell him that Chicago is more than happy to welcome their HQ
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #735  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 4:40 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
My offer extends to you as well:

Take a 50% paycut at your job, with that money going to a low income family to work alongside you. In return, I will drop my rents in 1 building by 50%.

You, Via, Notyrview—PM me if you want to meet up and make a deal. Let’s see how strongly you feel about this when it affects your bottom line, not somebody else’s.
I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm not advocating for more mandated affordable housing in Chicago. Chicago outside of a handful of neighborhoods is safe and affordable to people of all incomes. Those who claim Chicago as a whole is unaffordable are no different than those who say Chicago as a whole is a dangerous, gang-infested wasteland. I'm just saying it's unfair to say that people are poor because they are either stupid, lazy, or a combination of the two. The United States has a history of exclusion, discrimination, and oppression and that has very much contributed to many of the problems we see today with generational poverty and unfulfilled potential.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #736  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 4:52 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,883
Yeah, I would think this probably loses points with Amazon even if it doesn't go thru ...apart from whether you agree with the state or not on what they've threatened. It's an interesting situation to put it simply.
__________________
Chicago Maps:
* New Construction https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...B0&usp=sharing
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #737  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 5:11 PM
left of center's Avatar
left of center left of center is offline
1st Ward
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Big Onion
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Rahm should call up Delta's CEO and tell him that Chicago is more than happy to welcome their HQ
This would be welcome as well. I wonder if the fact that United is based here would be considered a positive (shared labor pool of experienced employees) or a negative (competative rivalry) by Delta. Probably very unlikely they will move from ATL, but its worth having Rahm talk to the CEO. Virginia and NYC both publicly stated on Twitter that Delta is more than welcome in their state/city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #738  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 6:02 PM
MakeChicagoGreatAgai MakeChicagoGreatAgai is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
Ok Mr 14,000 posts.



And I'm sure you think that 30% of a 30k income is the same thing as 30% of a 300,000 income, and carries the same weight and impact for those respective individuals

I have no problem with increased taxes. I actually think they're needed. I do have an issue with people who are responsible and benefit from creating structural inequality expecting those who suffer as a result to shoulder disproportionate shares of the burden, while they largely benefit from that exploitation

So yea, let me know your net worth, monthly income, and where it falls in relation to Americans as a whole we can go from there in drawing up a fair proposal
I'm sure you have preferences on what you'd like to see your tax money spent on though. If your taxes were lower you could contribute more to causes that you feel are more important instead of giving it to the gov and hoping they do whatever you consider to be the right thing.

We're all selfish people and we all want to support the things we like so lower taxes gets us closer to that goal and Chicago's relatively high taxes are strangling this city. Imagine what the skyline would look like if people were moving into the city from outside the State instead of so many people leaving.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #739  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 6:15 PM
Near North Resident Near North Resident is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
Ok Mr 14,000 posts.


I have no problem with increased taxes. I actually think they're needed.
you're wasting your time tup with a person who actually seriously thinks this...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #740  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 6:45 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Near North Resident View Post
you're wasting your time tup with a person who actually seriously thinks this...





but yea lets keep cutting taxes for the rich. im sure that trickle down to close the wealth gap will start any day now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:33 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.