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  #661  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
The realities are that the cities are the ones that control the rural areas. For places in Northern Ontario, having Toronto make the rules for up here is much worse than a city like Sudbury making rules. For example, what does Toronto know or understand about bears? Sudbury? The bears can be a regular occurrence.
So sub-regional government it is.
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  #662  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 4:45 PM
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So sub-regional government it is.
You mean what we have now?
Nope, Toronto still makes the rules. Toronto needs to not have any control on the North. Just like how Quebec has no bearing on Ontario laws.
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  #663  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 5:00 PM
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You mean what we have now?
Nope, Toronto still makes the rules. Toronto needs to not have any control on the North. Just like how Quebec has no bearing on Ontario laws.
No I mean, like Nunavik in Québec.
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  #664  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 5:02 PM
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No I mean, like Nunavik in Québec.
So, the provincial government that is urban centric has no bearing on the laws there?
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  #665  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2018, 6:09 PM
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So, the provincial government that is urban centric has no bearing on the laws there?
For that we need to ask Québecois like lio45 and Acajack...
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  #666  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 2:31 AM
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They don't control the local land use planning laws. I think that's what Northerners really want. Look at the things Northerners complain about the most when it comes to the government: MPAC, Far North Act, gas taxes (which until recently went entirely to public transit; about 40% of Northern Ontarians do not have access to public transit, yet pay those taxes), policies on wildlife, policies on forest management, policies on mining, the management of the hydro system. It's mostly land use and cost of living stuff.

There's really nothing that we can do when bears are present. One of Thunder Bay's subdivisions (an area of about 15,000 people) has a bear den in it, near several schools, and there is nothing anyone can legally do about it due to how provincial law governs interactions with bears. It's a serious sticking point here, and one that never gets addressed by the provincial government, while the city has no rights to act in this area.
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  #667  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 3:42 AM
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They don't control the local land use planning laws. I think that's what Northerners really want. Look at the things Northerners complain about the most when it comes to the government: MPAC, Far North Act, gas taxes (which until recently went entirely to public transit; about 40% of Northern Ontarians do not have access to public transit, yet pay those taxes), policies on wildlife, policies on forest management, policies on mining, the management of the hydro system. It's mostly land use and cost of living stuff.

There's really nothing that we can do when bears are present. One of Thunder Bay's subdivisions (an area of about 15,000 people) has a bear den in it, near several schools, and there is nothing anyone can legally do about it due to how provincial law governs interactions with bears. It's a serious sticking point here, and one that never gets addressed by the provincial government, while the city has no rights to act in this area.
This was not an issue decades ago when the spring bear hunt tags were separate from the fall bear hunt tags. These days, you cannot do both.

Simple things like that, or even the way we clear snow on the highways, or inter city transportation, or so many other things that are more of a challenge in the middle of "nowhere" vs Toronto. Even the cities of Sudbury, Thunder Bay, Sault St Marie, North Bay and Timmins get why those things matter. Someone in Toronto, Oakville, Bolton, or Ajax have no clue why cancelling a bus or train is a bad thing, even if it is running almost empty sometimes.

Having Toronto not able to control those things whatsoever would be better for The North.
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  #668  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
For that we need to ask Québecois like lio45 and Acajack...
It's probably not the type of autonomy that you envision. There is a lot of negotiation push and pull that has been taking place over decades, so it's a long, drawn out process.

There is of course an ethno-cultural dimension that underpins everything in Nunavik, which you don't really have in Northern Ontario. This means that a lot of the local people's priorities are not just about economic development and resource use, but also focus on particular needs in terms of education, culture and even to some degree the administration of justice.
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  #669  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 6:01 PM
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It's probably not the type of autonomy that you envision. There is a lot of negotiation push and pull that has been taking place over decades, so it's a long, drawn out process.

There is of course an ethno-cultural dimension that underpins everything in Nunavik, which you don't really have in Northern Ontario. This means that a lot of the local people's priorities are not just about economic development and resource use, but also focus on particular needs in terms of education, culture and even to some degree the administration of justice.
Thanks for your comment!
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  #670  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's probably not the type of autonomy that you envision. There is a lot of negotiation push and pull that has been taking place over decades, so it's a long, drawn out process.

There is of course an ethno-cultural dimension that underpins everything in Nunavik, which you don't really have in Northern Ontario. This means that a lot of the local people's priorities are not just about economic development and resource use, but also focus on particular needs in terms of education, culture and even to some degree the administration of justice.
It sounds like a split of the province is still a better thing. If Northern Ontario was that different, autonomy would be all we would need.
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  #671  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 11:12 PM
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This means that a lot of the local people's priorities are not just about economic development and resource use, but also focus on particular needs in terms of education, culture and even to some degree the administration of justice.
The indigenous population of the City of Thunder Bay exceeds the entire population of Nunavik. Population-wise, Northern Ontario has five Nunaviks. More than two thirds of our land is inhabited almost solely by indigenous people.

Ontario's standardized tests ask children in Red Lake to describe being on the subway in Toronto. They learn almost nothing about how to live safely in a town where bears surround them at all times. We have an entire hospital (Mino-ya-Win) that specializes in traditional indigenous medicine. Thunder Bay has a wing of its courthouse dedicated to aboriginal style justice and settlement.

And we could, if the political will were there, have these things region wide.
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