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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 8:53 AM
edluva edluva is offline
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I think it's pretty amazing, and scary, that LA-Santa Anta-Riverside, a "metro" of 15 million, grew by about 1.3 million. That's over 8%. Pretty crazy for a metro of its size.

Master Shake - What Houston, Atlanta, and other sunbelters are doing is not spectacular. In fact, it's not realy that they're doing anything at all. The sunbelters are just the frontier to american capitalism's manifest destiny. Cheap land, cheap taxes, cheap energy, and lax regulation have always been our economy's nectar. Nothing mysterious in that.

What impresses me more are cities in europe/japan and other old cities which appear to maintain a relatively modest but constant growth despite the lack of cheapness and spatial bounty. Such cities apear to have moved beyond relying on the bounty of open space and other exhaustible natural resources for growth. though I'd have to temper this admiration with the fact that in truth, even older cities feed off sprawl-belters such as Atlanta and Houston for their growth. In the end, the fact is that we're economically linked. Japan's society and economy, for all it's professed urbanism and environmentalism, relies heavily on ecologically-inefficient american growth for revenue. so it all comes full circle. Noone's blameless.

Which brings me to attack the self-righteousness of urbanists, urbanists including myself at times. Slogans such as "smart growth" are bullsh!t, as long as such growth continues to rely on the current mode of capitalism. Sustainability and capitalism are oxymorons because capitalism is inherently unsustainable. And this is because capitalism, by its very nature, requires a constant state of growth and environmental consumption to survive. It can never acheive a level of homeostasis that the concept of sustainability entails. Capitalism's a one-eyed beast bent on securing it's own survival, and we are it's pawns. One thing I've realized is that it really is all bullsh!t. We're just all too distracted by slogans to realize it.

Okay, I've drunk enough for tonite.
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 12:33 PM
shanthemanatl shanthemanatl is offline
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Originally Posted by PhillyNation View Post
I find it hysterical that people equate snow storms worse than living under the threat of hurricanes.(South Atlantic States..Florida...Gulf Coast) and tornados (how many times do you hears deaths from them in the south...as opposed to the north?). I've said it before and I'll say it again....people don't wind up in FEMA trailers after a Nor'easter. The snow falls...it gets plowed and shoveled...it melts...no harm...no foul. I'm sure people in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast would have much rather dug out from a blizzard than have their towns wiped out by a hurricane.

BTW....it's easier to stay warm than it is to cool off.

I hope most SunBelt boosters don't think that this rapid growth will last forever. As has been the history of this country...things change and people find a new place to migrate to...to which at some point we'll come full circle and Detroit and Buffalo will be the "It" places to be....
You also don't hear about 500 people dying in the South during a heat wave, unlike what happened in Chicago several years back.

And I don't know what you consider to be "the North", but tornadoes are just as prevalent north of the Ohio River as they are south of it.

Last edited by shanthemanatl; Apr 6, 2007 at 12:48 PM.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 12:41 PM
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As someone who moved here from Orlando, I can honestly say the summers here are a lot more tolerable than the muggy heat down there. It's all about the elevation. I was in Orlando last July, and the first day it was actually hard to breathe because of the stiffling humidity.

It's also not uncommon to get a nice little wave of 70's as late as June here.
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shanthemanatl View Post
You also don't hear about 500 people dying in the South during a heat wave, unlike what happened in Chicago several years back.

And I don't know what you consider to be "the North", but tornadoes are just as prevalent north of the Ohio River as they are south of it.
I know...I know...Atlanta is perfect....
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 1:29 PM
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When did he say that? Everything that he stated was factual. I remember growing up in Cincinnati and having to duck and cover in school during tornado warnings.
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 1:35 PM
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^^^ I also moved from Orlando to Atlanta. Orlando is AWFUL!!! the heat/humidity is so stifling and the afternoon thundershowers every summer day only make it worse.
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by edluva View Post
Master Shake - What Houston, Atlanta, and other sunbelters are doing is not spectacular. In fact, it's not realy that they're doing anything at all. The sunbelters are just the frontier to american capitalism's manifest destiny. Cheap land, cheap taxes, cheap energy, and lax regulation have always been our economy's nectar. Nothing mysterious in that.
I agree.
I think that it is all about money. The low cost of living and strong job growth make this area appealing to people who are looking to settle down. Families can live comfortably in a spacious home for a low price.

People who want to save money can do so. It is cheap to start up a business. 800,000+ in six years means more consumers and more businesses starting up to serve them. These businesses need employees and then hire local people meaning job growth.

But these cities have made themselves appealing to business. Big airports, tax incentives, and good local higher education attract companies. It is a favorable place to do business and as a result people move there to make money.
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 2:38 PM
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I liken it all to the general movement of people from cities to the suburbs; except the movement is from older cities to newer, more suburban ones. Just on a larger scale, but its the same basic principal as far as Im concerned, and involves the same mentality. Bigger and wider is better. And people do like newer stuff.
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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 2:56 PM
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I just want the discussion to focus on the economic and regulation factors that are making these cities so successful. Its not just abou the weather. The number of finance related companies that have moved to the Atlanta metro and other sun belters is astounding. They must be doing something right.

These cities are great places that provide the housing and lifestyle that most Americans desire. This should be recognized.
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Willis McGahee View Post
When did he say that? Everything that he stated was factual. I remember growing up in Cincinnati and having to duck and cover in school during tornado warnings.
I've never seen a twister in my life. Other than that one fluke outbreak in Western PA in the 1980's....how many times have you ever heard about a tornado that caused the level of damage in PA that is commonly seen in tornado alley and the southeast? It's just not a common occurance. But hey...it snows here a few times a year and it gets cold for a few months so I live in hell........
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyNation View Post
I've never seen a twister in my life. Other than that one fluke outbreak in Western PA in the 1980's....how many times have you ever heard about a tornado that caused the level of damage in PA that is commonly seen in tornado alley and the southeast? It's just not a common occurance. But hey...it snows here a few times a year and it gets cold for a few months so I live in hell........
What about South Central PA, though, Mike? It is a fairly common occurrence there. Campbelltown (just outside of Hershey) was completely leveled a few years ago. Halifax (north of HBG) just had one a few months ago (Oct. I think it was) that caused serious widespread damage. I lived just outside of the city limits for the later years of my life, and I actually SAW 2 tornadoes in those years. If I take into account all of the confirmed ones we had in my immediate area that I didn't see, then it is easily 5+.

The valley traps lots of weather systems (and creates new ones) and then immediately sends those systems across flatter areas where they can gain energy and wreak havoc. Adams, Dauphin, Cumberland, Lancaster, Lebanon, etc., Counties can be quite active tornado areas. South Eastern PA is not effected as much because by the time it reaches those counties, a lot (if not all) of the energy has been dumped in SC PA.
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Last edited by EastSideHBG; Apr 6, 2007 at 3:59 PM.
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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 3:56 PM
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As far as compared to Chicago, I'd say much more moderate climate and coastal influence.
DC in July/August is unbearably unpleasant, I'd hesitate to call it a more moderate climate.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago summer weather is perfect enough taht I don't have a desire to get out. Yeah I hated this February when it was under 10F for 2 weeks straight, but it never once made me thinking about moving, since I know how awesome this spring and summer will be.
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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 3:57 PM
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I've never seen a tornado either...and I've lived in N.C. or Atlanta most of my life. They are very infrequent, and it seems the chances of being affected by one are slim to none.
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyNation View Post
BTW....it's easier to stay warm than it is to cool off.
Amen! You can always put on more clothes, but there's a limit to what you can take off, and sometimes even that's not enough.
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  #95  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 4:04 PM
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Anybody want to explain the difference between "the north" and Philadelphia to PhillyNation? Anybody want to show him pictures of Xena, Ohio or the aftermath of Hurricane Carol?
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  #96  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 4:11 PM
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wow... this thread has jumped the shark
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  #97  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyNation View Post
I've never seen a twister in my life. Other than that one fluke outbreak in Western PA in the 1980's....how many times have you ever heard about a tornado that caused the level of damage in PA that is commonly seen in tornado alley and the southeast? It's just not a common occurance. But hey...it snows here a few times a year and it gets cold for a few months so I live in hell........
Again, I'll ask you... when has anyone said that you live in hell in this thread?

Please, show us.
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  #98  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 4:58 PM
Capsule F Capsule F is offline
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Originally Posted by brickell View Post
Anybody want to explain the difference between "the north" and Philadelphia to PhillyNation? Anybody want to show him pictures of Xena, Ohio or the aftermath of Hurricane Carol?
Anyone wanna show you pics of what hurricane Katrina did to New Orleans? We may get some hurricane activity but if you are insinuating that they are anywhere as damaging as to what the south receives you are ridiculous.
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  #99  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Willis McGahee View Post
Again, I'll ask you... when has anyone said that you live in hell in this thread?

Please, show us.

It was called sarcasm....
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  #100  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 5:12 PM
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Anybody want to explain the difference between "the north" and Philadelphia to PhillyNation? Anybody want to show him pictures of Xena, Ohio or the aftermath of Hurricane Carol?
I don't live in Ohio. I'm am talking about the Northeast Corridor...WHERE I EFFIN LIVE! You keep bringing up events that happen rarely around here ...where hurricane direct hits and tornado outbreaks happen yearly down there. Why can't you just admit that the south faces more dangers to that kind of weather? I swear some of you down there can never admit to having negatives about where ya live. Everyplace does!
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