Churchill future

[spiritedenergy]

I found out that University is still on holiday today...

So I was just reading my national news (Corriere della Sera, Italy), and there is an article about a "cold war" between Canada and USA (and also Russia, Denmark and Norway) about the control of the artic route now that permanent ice is melting fast in the Artic Ocean. It also states that the main advantage of this situation is for a certain Pat Broe from Denver who bought the port of Churchill for 7 $ (how can the canadian government be so stupid?), since Churchill will become the main canadian port in few years. It also states that the canadian wheat board is the main obstacle to Churchill growth since it controls where the grain will be shipped (and only a small part goes to Churchill).

My question is... is all of this true? I'm very much concerned about the fate of North Manitoba and its wilderness in the upcoming years.

[mersar]

That sounds very odd, and very unlikely in terms of the cost. The port is owned by Omnitrax Canada which is owned in turn by an american company owned by the Broe family, although from what I can tell the sale of the port happened in 1997 so its not exactly new news.

I'd also dispute it becoming 'the main port', as the port of Churchhill is tiny. Its only viable for 4-5 months of the year, and can only handle fairly small vessels (max of 60,000 tonne according to the MB gov't). Not to mention that due to the facilities there, and the very short operating season, it can only handle a fraction of the shipping that the Port of Halifax can. Something like a max of 1200 MT/h compared to Halifax's 2000 MT/h or Vancouver's 5000MT/h.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by mersar

I'd also dispute it becoming 'the main port', as the port of Churchhill is tiny. Its only viable for 4-5 months of the year, and can only handle fairly small vessels (max of 60,000 tonne according to the MB gov't). Not to mention that due to the facilities there, and the very short operating season, it can only handle a fraction of the shipping that the Port of Halifax can.

The whole point of the original post is that the "short operating season" is about to be extended by many months.

Depending on who you believe, Churchill could be a year-round port sometime within the next decade or two, and with the right ramp-up of facilities, would vastly increase in importance. Shipping from there overseas cuts quite a lot of time from the normal shipping routes (obviously depending on destination).

The fabled North-West Passage isn't just a history anecdote. It could become a vital and much-contested shipping lane in the not-too-distant future. And yes, this is one of the many reasons people are trying to disband the CWB.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by freeweed

The whole point of the original post is that the "short operating season" is about to be extended by many months.

Depending on who you believe, Churchill could be a year-round port sometime within the next decade or two, and with the right ramp-up of facilities, would vastly increase in importance. Shipping from there overseas cuts quite a lot of time from the normal shipping routes (obviously depending on destination).

The fabled North-West Passage isn't just a history anecdote. It could become a vital and much-contested shipping lane in the not-too-distant future. And yes, this is one of the many reasons people are trying to disband the CWB.

thank you, you seem the only one to understand my posts gotta improve my english.

The main point of this article is that "in few years" the Hudson Bay and the North-West Passage will be viable all year around... it doesn't really say in how many years, but it shows a map of how the artic will look in 2070 (almost no ice...) here
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C.../02/artico.pdf

It also states that this Pat Broe plans to have a business higher then 100 million $ in Churchill in the upcoming years.
There is also a part about this cold war between USA and Canada, with Canada showing off its military in Baffin Island while USA don't really give a damn about it and want to control the Arctic and the Passage at all costs mainly to drill oil and gas (also to ship oil from Alaska, but i can't see any point here since Alaska is very close to US pacific coast and Japan). This exploitation process is disgusting.

[Bigtime]

Well we better start beefing up the Navy to get ready to protect our rights in these waters. We have to keep an eye on those pesky Danes especially...

Now all I propose is some nuclear subs and continued upgrades to our surface fleet. They can just base out of Churchill as well if the port does indeed grow over the years.

[Xelebes]

CFB York Factory lol

Also Tuktoyuktuk will be enlarged. It already has one large shipment they want to get through it - a coker for Fort Mac.

[vid]

Iqaluit is becoming pretty important too. Perhaps Ontario will get in the game and invest in Port Albany/Kashechewan or Moose Factory?

[big W]

It would be intresting to see ports up north. However the port of Churchill would need to be significantly expanded if it were to become a major shipping port. It may happen but millions need to be spent into it. In the mean time the port the will see huge expansion is Prince Rupert in BC as it would provide a second west coast port.

Now the military spending is something the feds should be doing and doing well but thats a different issue altogether.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by big W

It would be intresting to see ports up north. However the port of Churchill would need to be significantly expanded if it were to become a major shipping port. It may happen but millions need to be spent into it. In the mean time the port the will see huge expansion is Prince Rupert in BC as it would provide a second west coast port.

Now the military spending is something the feds should be doing and doing well but thats a different issue altogether.

If and when the port of Churchill is open all year around .... you can expect it to really take off as a new city. It would become much more economically viable port for shipping and thus see some significant investments... both in shipping and rail service. You could also expect to see highway linkage to this new expanded port. It could possible surpass Brandon as the second largest city in Manitoba... this would only be further enhanced if it were also to become the main artic naval base. This would seem logical as Churchill is already linked to major populated areas (ie: Winnipeg) and is somewhat out of the projected high traffic area of the NW passage, within the Hudson's Bay, which would make for a good naval port.

Who knows .. if there is oil in the artic as many predict Churchill could also become a viable refinary port. Thus making it even more attractive for investors.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Who knows .. if there is oil in the artic as many predict Churchill could also become a viable refinary port. Thus making it even more attractive for investors.

We already know there's oil in the arctic. Tons of it. A lot is in wildlife refuges, so there's a bit of a disincentive to drill there - not that that's stopping Sr. Bush from trying. It will still cost a fortune to get at it, simply because the infrastructure is non-existent and the climate "challenging", to say the least. The same was said about Ft. McMurray 25 years ago, so who knows.

It's just sad that we have to lose something cool like the polar bears to see this happen. It's the one thing I never got a chance to see while in MB, and it's looking like I'm going to have to go SOON or miss out forever.

[canucklehead2]

I think reguardless of the potential climate change going on in the arctic, Churchill has a bright future because of its proximity to Europe. From what I read its WAY closer to Europe than any other port in North America, which makes it a prime location for intermodal traffic. I think with better hull technology on ships, this can only increase the attractiveness of the port further.

[Lead]

this is perfect. now we will have one main port for every ocean.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Lead

this is perfect. now we will have one main port for every ocean.

Is it Prince Rupert in BC that will be undergoing a major port expansion as well? Also how does Montreal stack up as a port?

So potentially 2 major ports along the East and West and Churchill in the North, it could really shift some of the dynamics of our population further North.

Edit: And perhaps in 70 years when some predict no Arctic ice we'll see Alert become a major port as well!

[vid]

Um, Thunder Bay is like, 60% port.

So that's the South coast covered.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Also how does Montreal stack up as a port?

It was Canada's largest for years, and also the world's largest inland port. Now it's 2nd to Vancouver, but still.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

I think reguardless of the potential climate change going on in the arctic, Churchill has a bright future because of its proximity to Europe. From what I read its WAY closer to Europe than any other port in North America, which makes it a prime location for intermodal traffic. I think with better hull technology on ships, this can only increase the attractiveness of the port further.

But is proximity to Europe worth much anymore? Europe has some of the slowest population and economic growth in the world, plus it is an extremely protectionist market. The future the pacific.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Doug

But is proximity to Europe worth much anymore? Europe has some of the slowest population and economic growth in the world, plus it is an extremely protectionist market. The future the pacific.

I'm no logistics expert but couldn't Churchill work out really well due to this example:

Product ships from China destined for Europe, sails to Vancouver and is railed up to Churchill where it boards another ship and sails for Europe.

Is this feasible? Right now does shipping take the long way around through the Suez Canal to get up to Europe from the Far East? Would my proposed routing be any faster than say using the Panama Canal? So many questions!

[Xelebes]

We would need rail connections. Where would it branch off the Yellowhead? Saskatoon? Winnipeg seems to be too out of the way for it to work in that fashion.

[freeweed]

You ship it straight from Asia to Europe. That's the whole point of the Northwest Passage, and the point of this thread.

If enough ice clears up, you can move boats all the way through the Arctic, saving thousands of kilometres by avoiding Panama or the Suez.

[canucklehead2]

But the issues of pollution and ships via the Northwest Passage make it a political hot potato, plus even with Global warming a clear passage is still a while down the road, so until then Churchill could really exploit this niche, along with Prince Rupert which is the West Coast equivalent of Churchill in terms of time savings..