SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[esquire]

^ Even if that's true, we're still talking a tiny proportion of overall graduates per year. I think there may be some pretty heavy selection bias in bomberjet's sample...

[Authentic_City]

Interesting info here:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/educa...loma-1.3003341

In inflation-adjusted dollars, here are the average salaries that 2005 bachelor’s graduates were earning eight years later (2013):

Engineering -- $99,600

Math and computer science - $89,300

Business graduates -- $81,400

Science and agriculture -- $68,700

Health -- $68,300

Social sciences -- $61,900

Humanities -- $57,000

Fine arts -- $45,100

In inflation-adjusted dollars, here are the average salaries that 2005 college diploma graduates were earning eight years later:

Engineering -- $71,900

Personal, protective and transportation services – $51,900

Sciences and agriculture -- $49,700

Health -- $49,300

Business -- $47,300

Arts and education -- $41,500

Fine arts -- $41,100

[rrskylar]

^ Oops you forgot one:

Liberal arts degree (easiest courses)---Winnipeg Police officer--$115,000

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

^ Oops you forgot one:

Liberal arts degree (easiest courses)---Winnipeg Police officer--$115,000

and firefighter $100k+

although i'm very happy with my current salary, both of these careers sounds much more rewarding (I have numerous friends that are both)

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

The seven SkyCity units that were on the MLS for the last year are no longer there.

Never mind; they've been relisted today.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

In Winnipeg, someone who completes university should have no problem getting a home if they manage finances properly. Tuition fees can be paid off using money from your summer work terms. In engineering, cause that's what I know, summer work co-ops will heavily offset your yearly fees.

Making over $100,000k with your post secondary education is quite easy these days (not that easy, but not too hard). It takes time, but is 100% doable for most everyone with a degree. You can have a family, own a home, and maybe even have one parent not work, or work part time.

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

That's how my dad did it.

Around 1960.

Tuition, books and other expenses have gone up by 20x the rate of inflation over the decades since then. Today my dad's experience is science fiction for most students. This ain't the same world. It's not even the same world since I went to college.

Those who can attend university while living rent-free at their parents' home can.... get away with significantly less debt when they graduate. The rest will be lucky to pay their rent and food and bills - for just the summer - while working that temporary summer McJob.



...if they choose their parents properly....

Tuition + books and some extra fees is around, or under $7k. Generously.

40hrs/week x12 for approx 3 summer months = 480

480x$15/hr= $7200

Yes, before tax... throw in some part time, it's covered. We also live in an infinitely spendy-er time than our parents did.

Kids these days probably spend WAY more on clothes and tech than their parents do, and in the past that was guaranteed flipped. Furthermore, while some get told to move out, a lot do not yet elect to. Previous generations took significant measures to save money that younger people consider to be beneath them, much like many of the jobs that Americans refuse to do that Mexicans gladly take. Point is, if someone wants it, it's there for the taking.

Hell, I have friends who paid off private university by themselves working full-time in summers and part-time during school.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm definitely not out of touch with the Winnipeg market. Again, my experience is in the engineering community.

First of all I didn't say make 100K out of school. That's ridiculous. 10 years out from graduation, it's pretty easy if you work for it. Having a B.Sc in engineering will almost guarantee unless you mess up.

I paid my tuition of, again 10 years ago, from mostly work co-ops. It doesn't need to be 1960 and have rich parents. My parents gave me virtually nothing. I even lived in with my gf in our own apartment during college.

Anyways, yes tuitions have increased substantially. This isn't 1960 where mom stays home and dad works at the hardware store. I get it. But it's also not a lifetime of debt form school. If you want to own a house, yeah you'll have debt for a long time.

This post is very correct

Originally Posted by cheswick

A B.Sc will all but guarantee $100k salary 10 years from graduation and you say you say you aren't out of touch? lol.

The average salary for a bachelor degree holder in 2005 in Winnipeg was $46k (stats Canada). With inflation that's $55k. Even with wage increases in the demo out pacing inflation the average salary of a bachelor degree holder is no where near $100k. Like not even in the ballpark

Engineering. And "guarantee" you if you work hard. It deserves an asterisk. I know a decent amount of engineers, and even the young ones around 30-32 are nudging on 100k or sometimes higher

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Even if that's true, we're still talking a tiny proportion of overall graduates per year. I think there may be some pretty heavy selection bias in bomberjet's sample...

It's not about whether it's super common, but rather that it's still very doable.

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Interesting info here:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/educa...loma-1.3003341

In inflation-adjusted dollars, here are the average salaries that 2005 bachelor’s graduates were earning eight years later (2013):

Engineering -- $99,600

To borrow/paraphrase a wonderful quote from George Carlin: "Think about how dumb the average person is. Now remember that half the people alive are DUMBER than that"

Yes, the term "average" loses it's significance when applied to a highly intelligent field like engineering, but in principle, average isn't a high bar to reach. There are a lot of people well beyond average making more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

It's not about whether it's super common, but rather that it's still very doable.

Well, it's "doable" to score 92 goals in a NHL season when you're 21 years old... after all, someone proved it's possible. But I don't think that's really illustrative of what hockey players are generally capable of.

What percentage of college/university grads in Manitoba do people with engineering degrees make up in a year? 1%? You're talking a pretty tiny part of the population... their experience doesn't tell you much about the general lay of the land for the majority. I mean, I'm sure there's a whiz kid every year in the batch of UM/UW/RRC/BU graduates who is earning over a million bucks before they're 30, but that kind of outlier data is useless for taking stock of the big picture.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, it's "doable" to score 92 goals in a NHL season when you're 21 years old... after all, someone proved it's possible. But I don't think that's really illustrative of what hockey players are generally capable of.

What percentage of college/university grads in Manitoba do people with engineering degrees make up in a year? 1%? You're talking a pretty tiny part of the population... their experience doesn't tell you much about the general lay of the land for the majority. I mean, I'm sure there's a whiz kid every year in the batch of UM/UW/RRC/BU graduates who is earning over a million bucks before they're 30, but that kind of outlier data is useless for taking stock of the big picture.

Semantics.

Besides, who cares? It's not like an outlier dramatically changes things. in a sample pool that large.

The point is if you want it, you can get it. Maybe it's easier for others, but it's very doable. You can't get 92 goals in hockey anymore anyway, nor is engineering the elite talent pool (not intellectual pool) that the NHL is. It's still a common field.

A list was just posted showing an avg salary of 99k for graduating engineers, proving the original position. Now recall that 49.999% of earnings are higher.

[esquire]

^ Getting back to the point of that example, I wonder how many developers are lining up to build projects in Winnipeg catering to young engineering grads earning $125,000 10 years out of school?

I'd wager there are not many. Probably none.

Maybe in a city crawling with engineers like Houston or Calgary there are. But Winnipeg is not exactly known for an engineering heavy labour force.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Tuition + books and some extra fees is around, or under $7k. Generously.

40hrs/week x12 for approx 3 summer months = 480

480x$15/hr= $7200

Yes, before tax... throw in some part time, it's covered. We also live in an infinitely spendy-er time than our parents did.

Kids these days probably spend WAY more on clothes and tech than their parents do, and in the past that was guaranteed flipped. Furthermore, while some get told to move out, a lot do not yet elect to. Previous generations took significant measures to save money that younger people consider to be beneath them, much like many of the jobs that Americans refuse to do that Mexicans gladly take. Point is, if someone wants it, it's there for the taking.

Hell, I have friends who paid off private university by themselves working full-time in summers and part-time during school.

This post is very correct

Engineering. And "guarantee" you if you work hard. It deserves an asterisk. I know a decent amount of engineers, and even the young ones around 30-32 are nudging on 100k or sometimes higher


It's not about whether it's super common, but rather that it's still very doable.



To borrow/paraphrase a wonderful quote from George Carlin: "Think about how dumb the average person is. Now remember that half the people alive are DUMBER than that"

Yes, the term "average" loses it's significance when applied to a highly intelligent field like engineering, but in principle, average isn't a high bar to reach. There are a lot of people well beyond average making more.

Average and median are two different things. An average salary doesn't tell you anything about salary distributions. If there are ten people one earning $800k and 9 earning $30k, on average they make $100k.

[Riverman]

I can tell you as an educator almost no one buys textbooks anymore. They are all downloaded. Saves students a shitload of $$$$.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Average and median are two different things. An average salary doesn't tell you anything about salary distributions. If there are ten people one earning $800k and 9 earning $30k, on average they make $100k.

There are some inherent biases at work in those numbers. In particular, they don't tell you what people with identical characteristics earned as graduates of each of those programs. In other words, it could be that humanities students with IQ=130 are making more than engineering students with IQ=130, and that the average for humanities is lower simply because it's not hard for relatively low-IQ people to get into humanities and almost impossible for them to get into engineering. That's not a reason for any particular person to believe that he would earn more as a result of going into engineering vs. going into arts, supposing that both options are open to him.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Getting back to the point of that example, I wonder how many developers are lining up to build projects in Winnipeg catering to young engineering grads earning $125,000 10 years out of school?

I'd wager there are not many. Probably none.

Maybe in a city crawling with engineers like Houston or Calgary there are. But Winnipeg is not exactly known for an engineering heavy labour force.

The manufacturing of nearly anything you use daily at some point required an engineer. At some point in the process, and engineer was involved in the development of the sharpie on your desk, never mind mind the swivel chair you sit in, or the floor you stand on.

Every construction project period, at least indirectly, involved an engineer, even if just to make the tools you used to build your deck. Any commercial/residential construction project? Engineer. All the servicing and electricty? Engineers.

Every project of decent size, across almost all industries, includes engineers. It is an industry that will probably never die, and they are needed almost everywhere, and a lot of these areas have good financial upside.

My point isn't directly related to average, just that it is very reasonably achievable if you're a) smart or b) willing to work. If C) both, then you can go very far.

Originally Posted by cheswick

Average and median are two different things. An average salary doesn't tell you anything about salary distributions. If there are ten people one earning $800k and 9 earning $30k, on average they make $100k.

Of course they're different, but ultimately, semantics.

The point you make illustrates the difference between mean/median but is very disconnected from engineer pay, so what's the point? Engineering is not a small field, so there is a large population sample to arrive at said means and medians at. Mean will be higher, but only by a little.

Furthermore, not sure if you quoted my entire post or not, i mentioned that half of earnings ie, all moneys earned together, are higher than that. Not salaries.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

The manufacturing of nearly anything you use daily at some point required an engineer. At some point in the process, and engineer was involved in the development of the sharpie on your desk, never mind mind the swivel chair you sit in, or the floor you stand on.

Every construction project period, at least indirectly, involved an engineer, even if just to make the tools you used to build your deck. Any commercial/residential construction project? Engineer. All the servicing and electricty? Engineers.

Every project of decent size, across almost all industries, includes engineers. It is an industry that will probably never die, and they are needed almost everywhere, and a lot of these areas have good financial upside.

My point isn't directly related to average, just that it is very reasonably achievable if you're a) smart or b) willing to work. If C) both, then you can go very far.


Of course they're different, but ultimately, semantics.

The point you make illustrates the difference between mean/median but is very disconnected from engineer pay, so what's the point? Engineering is not a small field, so there is a large population sample to arrive at said means and medians at. Mean will be higher, but only by a little.

Furthermore, not sure if you quoted my entire post or not, i mentioned that half of earnings ie, all moneys earned together, are higher than that. Not salaries.

That's all well and good, but that's a far cry from the comment that initially launched us on this tangent:

Making over $100,000k with your post secondary education is quite easy these days (not that easy, but not too hard). It takes time, but is 100% doable for most everyone with a degree. You can have a family, own a home, and maybe even have one parent not work, or work part time.

What constitutes "quite easy" is obviously a relative concept, but I doubt many people would consider the ingredients that go into becoming an above-average earning engineer as a "quite easy" career path.

[drew]

I am an engineer - and I am smrter than the whole lot of you!

But then a few of my friends who tried and quit just about every type of career before finally giving up and applying to be cops - they now earn comfortably more than me. Complete with pension.

Ridiculous.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

I am an engineer - and I am smrter than the whole lot of you!

But then a few of my friends who tried and quit just about every type of career before finally giving up and applying to be cops - they now earn comfortably more than me. Complete with pension.

Ridiculous.

Ha. One of my buddies had the same undergrad degree as I did but he was kind of drifting in his career and decided to become a city cop. He too is now living very comfortably, and will likely retire far earlier than I will.

There are some days when I wonder about my life choices!

[bruiser]

The extensive discussion on education, tuition costs, living at home, income, and the merits of being an engineer no longer seem to revolve around SkyCity.

I know, I know...I’m a jerk.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

I decided today, after finding the project's account on Instagram, to inquire on this project and if it'll truly happen. Keep in mind, I'm an optimist....even with how this thread has meandered. These are two photos off my phone from the little conversation I had with a PR person or whoever manages the account of this project. I'm not going to try and say anything with bias about the following photos.....
[IMG]_20171127_132447 by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]Stuff by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG]

This account is purely marketing for this project by the way, and I have found no comment like mine about the credibility of this project. All other comments are simple, fairly inane, or just something like a fire symbol or a quip of phrase.

[esquire]

^ Bear in mind that many of the pessimists were optimists for years (myself included), but years of inaction tend to make anyone not on the developer's payroll more than a little skeptical...

They could prove all the doubters wrong by actually starting construction. Not just digging a pit, but building something.

[windypeg]

"Behind the scenes we're working hard and making huge progress" .... on what? They own the land. They claim to have at least 50% units sold. They have a builder lined up. What are they waiting for? I know everything takes forever in Winnipeg and I'm still crossing my fingers and hoping for a miracle on this but come on.