NEW YORK | 270 Park Ave | 1,389 FT | 57 FLOORS

[WhatTheHeck5205]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^ It wouldn't work, the floor plates wouldn't be large enough, then there is the issue of city zoning. The only way that could possibly work is through an extension of the existing tower, connecting the floorplates. That wouldn't happen for a variety of reasons. Also, it would defeat the purpose of constructing a new building (and the issue of trying to preserve the older one, what would be the point?). I think if Chase could have avoided the whole issue of moving headquarters (temporarily) and moving back again, it would have. But they will now be getting exactly the building they want for their own needs, their own footprint. Think of the redesign of tower 2 at the WTC, all of the work that went into it for a specific company at the time. And this will be a corporate headquarters tower designed from scratch, the last of which we saw here of this scale was the Goldman Sachs tower Downtown. In this case, the city is about to take building a new headquarters (or a new skyscraper) to a whole new level.

First of all, I’m not sure I buy the floorplate argument. Bank of America seems to make do perfectly fine with a tower roughly the same size as the podium, and as far as I know they’re pretty close to Chase in size. Second, I’m aware that current zoning wouldn’t permit a sufficiently large tower on just the podium portion of the site; hence my proposal that the city provide Chase with a variance in exchange for the preservation of the tower. Unfortunately, however, that would require a mayoral administration with some knowledge of and respect for architecture, which the De Blasio administration clearly isn’t. Finally, whether or not the existing tower suits your own personal taste, the consensus among experts in the architectural, urban planning and historic preservation professions—aka, the people we trust to make decisions about these things—is that the design of the existing tower is significant for both aesthetic and historical reasons and is thus worth preserving. As for Chase, however, I highly doubt that the logistics of moving played a significant role in the decision—it was likely secondary to satisfying Jamie Dimon’s ego. The same could be said for Chase’s need for specialized space—after all, the existing tower was originally built for Union Carbide, a chemical company, but has managed to serve perfectly fine as a bank headquarters for how many decades now? To me, this is further proof that this proposal is entirely ego-driven, and I’d like to remind all of you that ego, power, and wealth do not equal taste. If 270 Park Avenue is allowed to be demolished, its replacement will almost certainly be the hulking, 1600’ equivalent of a mobster’s Long Island McMansion or a bright-red Sam Chang/Gene Kaufman hotel—or worse, a massive hole in the ground over the Grand Central railyards once Trump’s trade wars crater the economy.

But hey, we gotta keep up with China in the dick si... uh, I mean, height contest, amirite guys? Even if it means sacrificing the perfectly good skyscrapers we already have! HELLZ YEAH BUILD IT ALL LOLOLOL!!!
(/s, needless to say)

Honestly, I don’t get this site sometimes.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by WhatTheHeck5205

First of all, I’m not sure I buy the floorplate argument. Bank of America seems to make do perfectly fine with a tower roughly the same size as the podium, and as far as I know they’re pretty close to Chase in size.

Luckily nobody is trying to sell you anything, but the floorplates of the current tower are smaller. They wouldn't build another tower with floorplates just as small or smaller (there will have to be room between the two). Look around at all of the new buildings the banks and financial companies are moving into. One thing they have in common is the large floorplates. For smaller or midsized companies, smaller floorplates are fine (look at 1 Vanderbilt). But it would be foolish to suggest larger floorplates aren't in order here.

I’m aware that current zoning wouldn’t permit a sufficiently large tower on just the podium portion of the site; hence my proposal that the city provide Chase with a variance in exchange for the preservation of the tower.

Again, that makes zero sense, and defeats the purpose of preservation. Neither Chase nor the city would go through the wasted time and effort to preserve what is basically a run of the mill office tower, in a city with hundreds.

Finally, whether or not the existing tower suits your own personal taste, the consensus among experts in the architectural, urban planning and historic preservation professions—aka, the people we trust to make decisions about these things—is that the design of the existing tower is significant for both aesthetic and historical reasons and is thus worth preserving.

You're joking right? I don't give a rats a$$ about a "consensus", and I sure as hell don't "trust" the so called preservation experts to make decisions about everything. I don't know where your head is at, but you are way off base.

[NYguy]

Imagine if 270 were coming down at the same time..


https://www.instagram.com/p/BnZXXnaD...en-by=treeza22

[TreeSkier]

^^ Awesome shot, above.

Regarding all the speculation around the height, floorplate sizes, taking down "the lower building", etc, here's some quick math gasoline for the fire:

2,500,000 sq ft, at 70 floors, works out to an average of about 35,714 sq. ft per floor. A perfectly square floorplate, with every floor identical for the entire building height, would have dimensions of about 189' per side. At 75 floors, you're still at 183' per side (33,333 sq. ft per floor).

I haven't walked past 270 Park in a while, but looking at that picture above, I'm guessing that's considerably bigger than the current, main tower of that building. But the entire block (ie, entire 270 building, "lower portion" and main/taller portion) would certainly support some combination of dimensions that get you to the 33-36,000/floor. (200' x 175' is 35,000 for example -- an acre is 43,560(!)).

THEN, at say 15' per floor, you're at 1050-1125 feet for 70-75 floors. At 18' per floor: 1260-1350 feet. That's just for inhabitable, working space for employees.

Keep in mind this is with all floors the same size -- that could easily not happen. And maybe 15' per floor is too conservative (18'-ish is 1VB dimensions, and this is a global headquarters -- they won't skimp). So to get to 2,500,000 sqft (room for 15,000 employees vs. 6,000 being the biggest tell), you could easily have more than 75 floors, almost certainly starting from as much block coverage as the city will approve. Then tack on non-working, "pure aesthetics" (spires, etc...) and 1500'+ doesn't sound like too much of a stretch.

Another comparative: Bank of America's building is 1200' to the spire, 900'-ish of working space and 2,100,000 sq ft spread over 54 floors.

[NYguy]

Yeah, a 70-story office tower today is more eqivilent to a 100-story office tower of a few decades ago. That's why all of the taller modern office towers in the city have floors with desgnated numbers higher than the actual floor.

15 Penn Plaza, for example, would have 68 actual floors, rising to 1,216 ft. Likewise, 30 Hudson, One Vanderbilt, the WTC towers all have an actual number if floors less tgan what is designated.

Then we have the city's complicated zoning, which determines how high a building can rise before setbacks, how wide a building can be above a certain height, streetwall, etc. The site itself has an FAR of 25 on the eastern half, and 23 on the other half. We'll see how it all plays out when the approval process begins.

[NYguy]

We're in the final days of this building. If anyone cares, now is the time to get out and enjoy it.

[Prezrezc]

::sniff::......Not.

[Hudson11]

I wonder what the timeframe here is? If I remember, they said they want to have the building demolished by the end of 2019, which seems incredulous for a tower of this size, but I wouldnt doubt the resources of JP Morgan Chase.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

We're in the final days of this building. If anyone cares, now is the time to get out and enjoy it.

Eh...

While I don't hate this building it's probably among the few 700+ footers I'd be okay with dismantling in NYC.

This must be among the tallest buildings to ever have been demolished on purpose as well. Only in NY do you knock down a 700 foot building so you can build one twice as tall.


...

[Amanita]

I care about this building, but thanks to my work situation I won't be able to make it to NYC before spring of next year at least. FML.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

I wonder what the timeframe here is? If I remember, they said they want to have the building demolished by the end of 2019, which seems incredulous for a tower of this size, but I wouldnt doubt the resources of JP Morgan Chase.

They've got to move out of there first, largely to a building across the street that was expanded (390 Madison).


https://commercialobserver.com/2018/...t-390-madison/

Financial giant J.P. Morgan Chase has leased the rest of L&L Holding Company’s 390 Madison Avenue, taking 436,905 square feet in the 32-story Midtown East office building, Commercial Observer has learned.

Its space includes a conference center, multiple outdoor terraces and several double-height amenity areas, plus a 24,000-square-foot Chase Bank branch on the ground floor. The banking and financial services firm will occupy half of the 850,000-square-foot building on a 10-year lease.

J.P. Morgan Chase announced it would knock down its existing headquarters at 270 Park Avenue and develop a new, 70-story headquarters in its place. 270 Park is conveniently located a block east of L&L’s project, which will make it easy for the bank to relocate thousands of workers when it decides to redevelop its current home.

https://www.390madison.com/chapters/exterior-building/

Originally Posted by Amanita

I care about this building, but thanks to my work situation I won't be able to make it to NYC before spring of next year at least. FML.

You will probably make it before any real change happens.

[Submariner]

Is 390 complete yet?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Submariner

Is 390 complete yet?

It's either finished, or close to it. I haven't really been looking at it, but last time I went by there the sidewalk fence was still up.

Speaking of 390 though, it's been redesigned to add some of the amenities that all of the new developments have, most visibly the landscaped terraces. It leads me to believe that the new 270 won't just be a straight up box as it rises, like the current tower.



https://www.kpf.com/projects/390-madison-avenue

[Hudson11]

I walked past about two months ago and work was still ongoing, with the hoist still up.

[NYguy]

There is also a cam.
https://www.390madison.com/the-site/

[NYguy]

Another looksy at 390.



Piotr Jasinski

[Prezrezc]

Don't you think they could've performed another 425 Parkostomy here?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Prezrezc

Don't you think they could've performed another 425 Parkostomy here?

For 270? No. And why would they? The only reason 425 Park was built the way it was for zoning issues.

[NYguy]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-e...own-east-tower

JPMorgan files for air-rights transfer to boost new Midtown East tower
Development rights said to be worth $240 million will help planned headquarters reach 2.5 million square feet

JOE ANUTA
September 24, 2018

JPMorgan Chase filed plans this month to apply development rights from the landmarked Grand Central Terminal to the company's new tower planned for Park Avenue. The transfer of around 668,000 square feet of air rights indicates progress on the project, which was announced earlier this year.

The bank filed the transfer application with the Department of City Planning Sept. 6. The agency will mull over the request before likely approving the measure and paving the way for the transaction.

...JPMorgan may purchase an additional 100,000 of development rights from two religious institutions, including St. Bartholomew's Church.

Also to be discussed by the community board...



https://www.cb5.org/cb5m/calendar/20...housing-zoning

LAND USE, HOUSING & ZONING

Wednesday, October 3rd, 2018, at 6:00pm
SGI-USA NY Culture Center
7 East 15th Street

Layla Law-Gisiko, Acting Chair

Agenda

Application by JPMorgan Chase requesting a certification to allow a transfer of air rights from Grand Central Terminal to 270 Park Avenue for development of an 1.8M+ sq foot office tower, which would result in a $42M contribution to the East Midtown Public Realm Improvement Fund

[chris08876]

This is gonna be big. I have a feeling it'll crack the 1550' mark. Its a lot of development rights, factored that in with class A space accommodated for banking/trading, and your looking at quite high ceiling heights. Along with the amenities that are staples in banking towers, and this will be a biggie. Spire or not is what I'm wondering, but bulk wise, I think at a minimum this will be 1400'. At a minimum.

Just as a reference, Vanderbilt is 1.7 mil-sq ft. Will share similar class A space. IF we are talking 1.8 - 2.4 mil-sq ft, its a very real possibility.

This will be a trophy tower for an elite bank.