Air Rail Link project progress thread

[SFUVancouver]

Will it be $22 to ride the train, regardless of where one embarks or disembarks? If one were to board at the airport and disembark at Bloor to transfer to the subway, would they pay the same $22 as someone continuing on to Union Station? Also, could your train ticket be honoured as a day-pass on the TTC?

[LeftCoaster]

I'm not sure any of that information has been decided upon, both are relevant questions though.

I'd be surprised if the second ever came to fruition, although it would be a nice gesture.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by westendjack

This project strikes me as a poor man's version of Hong Kong's Airport Express (100HK$ about $13 each way) and at least in its initial incarnation, likely to be more of an embarrassment than an improvement to Toronto.

Care to explain?

[westendjack]

Originally Posted by Tony

Care to explain?

Of course. The comparison really struck me when I saw the renderings for the diesel multiple units but I think it's apt. The Hong Kong Airport Express runs regular trains from Hong Kong's Airport to Central , the middle of town. It's a premium service and (at least last time I passed through) the only rail service from the Airport. It does connect with public transit a few limited stops. There's a premium fare (100HK$ about $13.00 CDN) compared to departing the airport via regular transit (which connects into the MTR). Airport Express currently takes about 24 minutes each way. Air Link is going to be roughly 20 - 25 minutes as I understand it. In broad strokes, there's a lot of relevant comparisons.

But the differences are striking:

1. Airport Express is electrified whereas Air Link is diesel powered.

2. Airport Express has a dedicated route whereas Air Link will be using existing (if upgraded) infrastructure for most of its route. This would seem to make it potentially more vulnerable to service disruption.

3. Airport Express allows you to check your luggage in Central before ever getting on a train to leave for the airport. There's no similar provision planned for Air Link to my knowledge.

4. Airport Express is a lot cheaper each way than Air Link as proposed. That makes it a lot more appealing for non-business travellers.

I'll also be curious to see what the integration is with Presto. In Hong Kong the Octopus Card can be used for Airport Express and then free MTR use for the remainder of the day. From what I have seen and read, you will be able to use Presto for Air Link, but there won't be any fare linking at all. I hope that's incorrect as that would undermine using the Presto Card on Air Link.

Hence the feeling that this is a "poor man's version." Toronto, frankly, deserves better, not just on this one project but in general, on the transit front.

[ssiguy]

Trust me there won't be any amount transferable to a regular TTC ticket. In Toronto you don't even get a discount for going from regular commuter rail/bus to standard TTC service. GTA transit is nothing but a series of disjointed fiefdoms where protecting one's turf far out weighs any consideration for the lonf suffering Toronto commuters.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by westendjack

Of course. The comparison really struck me when I saw the renderings for the diesel multiple units but I think it's apt. The Hong Kong Airport Express runs regular trains from Hong Kong's Airport to Central , the middle of town. It's a premium service and (at least last time I passed through) the only rail service from the Airport. It does connect with public transit a few limited stops. There's a premium fare (100HK$ about $13.00 CDN) compared to departing the airport via regular transit (which connects into the MTR). Airport Express currently takes about 24 minutes each way. Air Link is going to be roughly 20 - 25 minutes as I understand it. In broad strokes, there's a lot of relevant comparisons.

But the differences are striking:

1. Airport Express is electrified whereas Air Link is diesel powered.

2. Airport Express has a dedicated route whereas Air Link will be using existing (if upgraded) infrastructure for most of its route. This would seem to make it potentially more vulnerable to service disruption.

3. Airport Express allows you to check your luggage in Central before ever getting on a train to leave for the airport. There's no similar provision planned for Air Link to my knowledge.

4. Airport Express is a lot cheaper each way than Air Link as proposed. That makes it a lot more appealing for non-business travellers.

Hence the feeling that this is a "poor man's version." Toronto, frankly, deserves better, not just on this one project but in general, on the transit front.

ok, I can sort of see what you mean and some points are valid in terms of being a scaled down Airport Express. But the thing is, the only public transit option for Pearson at this time is only 5-ish bus routes, TTC, GO, Brampton & Mississauga. Not exactly high capacity nor near the number of route servicing HKIA which on quick glance appears to have 23 daytime routes.

I think the demand is there. To call it an embarrassment would seem to be very premature.

[M II A II R II K]

It would be cheaper to take a taxi if 3 people were travelling together, and drop you from door to door too.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

It would be cheaper to take a taxi if 3 people were travelling together, and drop you from door to door too.

So? What about people traveling in groups of only 1 or 2?

[WhipperSnapper]

The link is the first step to shutting down the Island Airport as well as a great amenity to the suits on Bay Street who finance, build, and occupy the towers that grace our skyline. win/win.

[westendjack]

Originally Posted by Tony

ok, I can sort of see what you mean and some points are valid in terms of being a scaled down Airport Express. But the thing is, the only public transit option for Pearson at this time is only 5-ish bus routes, TTC, GO, Brampton & Mississauga. Not exactly high capacity nor near the number of route servicing HKIA which on quick glance appears to have 23 daytime routes.

I think the demand is there. To call it an embarrassment would seem to be very premature.

Oh I know the comparison isn't perfect. I'm just viewing this from the perspective of its most likely users, the "suits" as WhipperSnapper pointed out. Their not going to blink at paying the $22.00 fare but they're going to compare that to other airport rail links and unfortunately, as structured, this one will come across as lacking.

After an admittedly cursory search, it appears this is the first new Airport Rail Link in a number of years that won't be electrified. Obviously, there are other issues regarding GO and Metrolinx's handling of the electrification issues, but all of it, on this project, is just adding up badly in my opinion.

As I said earlier, I really feel that Toronto deserves better.

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps we should get the Shanghai Maglev from Union to the Airport.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The link is the first step to shutting down the Island Airport as well as a great amenity to the suits on Bay Street who finance, build, and occupy the towers that grace our skyline. win/win.

I personally like the Island Airport.

[Nick.]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The link is the first step to shutting down the Island Airport as well as a great amenity to the suits on Bay Street who finance, build, and occupy the towers that grace our skyline. win/win.

yeah, no. porter is constantly expanding their business and there is a tunnel connecting it to the city planned.

[Tony]

Construction of rail service to Pearson airport begins in spring
12/19/2011
(from CityNews.ca Staff)

Construction on an express rail service connecting downtown Toronto to Pearson International Airport will begin this spring, Premier Dalton McGuinty announced Monday.

The air rail spur line will shuttle passengers between Union Station and a new passenger station at the airport’s Terminal 1.

The project is expected to create and support more 1,200 jobs and is slated for completion by summer 2014.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...gins-in-spring

[telyou]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The link is the first step to shutting down the Island Airport as well as a great amenity to the suits on Bay Street who finance, build, and occupy the towers that grace our skyline. win/win.

Eh............NO.
The Island Airport is not going anywhere. If anything, and from what I've been hearing, there is a possibility the airport will expand the runway to allow jets to land.

Billy Bishop Airport is not in danger of shutting down at any point in our lifetime.

[westendjack]

The ever-flawed Pearson rail link (Op-ed)
by Mike Sullivan NDP MP for York South-Weston
Sunday December 18, 2011

Link: The Star

• Senior levels of government just told Toronto an air-rail link — a “Heathrow Airport Express”-style connection — was what we were getting.
• And let’s add the ignominy of using diesel trains. Oh wait, we have to, because there isn’t time to string wires before the 2015 Pan-Am Games. And our premier promised the Pan-Am organizers the air-rail link would be running in time for the Games. So we must run diesel for the first ever “green and sustainable” Pan-Am Games, as the organizers have called it.
• But it’s only diesel for a while — say, seven to nine years — says Metrolinx, and the trains are convertible or can be replaced and pressed into service on other GO routes. Oh wait, their platform height is incompatible with GO trains, so that won’t work. So why are we running diesel again? Why will we be the only country in the world using diesel trains instead of electric for an airport link? When was this public debate again?
• But it’s only useful to the many residents who voted for him if the fares are reasonable and if there are a few more stops. And if it’s electric service, a few more stops won’t delay the business folks using it to get from the airport to downtown. Its use by ordinary Torontonians going to work will significantly increase ridership over what was originally planned — it would be a win-win!

This particular opinion piece covers a lot of the issues I have with this particular plan. According to Mr. Sullivan this is going to be the only diesel airport rail link in service. That fits with my own research. Can anyone else confirm that this is correct?

[ssiguy]

Mr.Sullivan is dead on in all respects.
If they simply electrfied the line, added 4 or 5 more stations north of Bloor to Etobiko North stations, and made it part of the standard TTC system {with an extra surcharfe for those going all the way to Pearson}, Toronto would have a new rapid transit line which Torontonians could actually use as opposed to just hearing and smelling it.
Also they have 2 and a half years to electrify the line....more than enough time to have it done by mid 2014.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by telyou

If anything, and from what I've been hearing, there is a possibility the airport will expand the runway to allow jets to land.

While I agree the airport isn't going anywhere I need to question you on your sources of a runway expansion and the reintroduction of lager jets. There is no way in hell larger jets will be allowed to use the airport due to noise regulations. Not gonna happen. Your sources are dead wrong on that one.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Mr.Sullivan is dead on in all respects.
If they simply electrfied the line, added 4 or 5 more stations north of Bloor to Etobiko North stations, and made it part of the standard TTC system {with an extra surcharfe for those going all the way to Pearson}, Toronto would have a new rapid transit line which Torontonians could actually use as opposed to just hearing and smelling it.
Also they have 2 and a half years to electrify the line....more than enough time to have it done by mid 2014.

Electrify yes. More stations and part of TTC? I don't think so.

The line is through an existing rail corridor, there are very limited places to simply plunk down a station. You also need to keep in mind that this link isn't necessarily being catered to the residents of Toronto, but more towards the Bay St. crowd and tourists. That said, the airport - railway express links I've ridden don't usually have more than 3-4 stops in total, much less the 9 or so or so you're suggesting.

[caltrane74]

Hey this rail link is the first step. My favorite saying is "Rome wasn't built in a day" - basically city building is a fluid process and any chance we have to make some progress in some areas should be applauded. I'm not saying we shouldnt strive for more or reach for the sky, but the nature of Toronto and Ontario for that matter is to be reserved and pragmatic.



Looks like people in Mississauga are pissed because there will be no connection between their downtown and the airport. Apparently they were hoping to kick start redevelopment in the core with direct service to Pearson. Lol!

http://www.thestar.com/iphone/news/m...port-link?bn=1