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  #4221  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 6:44 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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I haven't been down that way in a while.

Are the trains onto the new bridge yet? Is there a hole being dug?
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  #4222  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 6:58 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Not sure about trains, but yeah there's already a big hole on both sides.
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  #4223  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 7:00 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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If there's a hole, they must be on the new bridge. Thanks for the info.
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  #4224  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 7:17 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Definitely a unique approach as it seems the new bridge was built on ground level and then they are digging the hole under it. I would have guessed they would have first dug the hole, then built the support pillars and finally built the bridge.
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  #4225  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 7:40 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
If there's a hole, they must be on the new bridge. Thanks for the info.
The whole doesn't go under the bridge yet, it's a hole on either side, not connected.
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  #4226  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 8:09 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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thanks. If theres holes on both sides, the railway detour would have been removed. From my knowledge of the project.

And yes to Cory's point, this is what's called top down construction. fairly common nowadays. The cassions are cored in from original grade. the bridge built on top. reasoning is you can do everything at ground level with only minimal excavation. This way you aren't constantly working at heights, up on man lifts, etc. Then you just dig out underneath to the proper depth. The exposed caissons are metalized or painted and you're all good.

Same process was done at Plessis and for the transitway wye underpass bridges.
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  #4227  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 2:20 PM
MG922 MG922 is offline
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I commute through there every day. Excavation occuring north of the new bridge and south of the shoofly rail line. Trains are still on the shoofly, as the ballast and rail has not yet been installed on the new bridge. The bridge is complete though.

Lots of roadworks happening on Taylor west of Waverley. Also Hurst way (by the Tims, road that continues east from Wilkes ave) is almost done
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  #4228  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 2:21 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Thank you.
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  #4229  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 2:43 PM
plrh plrh is offline
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I heard they were having BIG problems in the pumping station excavation for the Waverley underpass. I don't know if it will make a difference on completion date yet, but it will certainly cost someone some money. They still have the summer of 2019 to complete it, I think.
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  #4230  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 6:33 PM
cllew cllew is offline
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This was in the last report to Wpg Finance Committee in September

During the reporting period, work has continued primarily on the bridge structure and pump station. Difficulties were encountered with subsurface conditions during the installation of deep foundations for the bridge structure. Specifically, at the middle pier, sound bedrock suitable for rock-socketed caisson foundations was not encountered at the expected depth due to a highly localized discontinuity in the bedrock. All remaining piers and abutments were installed with no difficulty. Modification of the caisson design 5 and installation methodology was required to achieve a foundation adequate for the bridge structure. This, together with a late start to bridge construction has combined to result in the bridge being behind schedule by 5 – 6 weeks. Refer to the Schedule section for additional discussion. Additional costs related to the foundation difficulties are also expected, and are currently being evaluated by the Contract Administrator

Completion of the bridge structure is critical to the overall project schedule because adequate time is required in the fall of 2018 for CN’s contractor to complete mainline railwork over the new bridge and transition train traffic off the rail detour (shoofly) and over the new bridge.

Failure to transition trains over the new bridge by the end of the 2018 construction season would result in an inability to complete bulk excavation under the
underpass in the winter of 2018-2019, and severely compromise the ability to complete paving and drainage works under the new underpass in 2019.
Despite the delay to bridge completion, no impact is expected to the overall project schedule. The Public Service continues to work closely with CN to plan the fall 2018 railworks over the new bridge which reflects the anticipated bridge completion date.

If bridge completion date is delayed beyond September 25, 2018, it could result in a 9 to 12 month delay to the overall project completion. However, with bridge foundation works complete as of June 20, 2018, this is deemed to be low risk.
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  #4231  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 6:49 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Not an uncommon issue. They would just have to core further into the bedrock. I'm guessing the abutments are h-piles as opposed to caissons, so there would be no issue as the piles don't extend down to bedrock. Or, as was mentioned in the report, there was a very localized change in the bedrock.

This is why for building design, such as at Sutton Place right now, they core testholes at every caisson location. These provides certainty on the design.
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  #4232  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 7:13 PM
plrh plrh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cllew View Post
This was in the last report to Wpg Finance Committee in September

During the reporting period, work has continued primarily on the bridge structure and pump station. Difficulties were encountered with subsurface conditions during the installation of deep foundations for the bridge structure. Specifically, at the middle pier, sound bedrock suitable for rock-socketed caisson foundations was not encountered at the expected depth due to a highly localized discontinuity in the bedrock. All remaining piers and abutments were installed with no difficulty. Modification of the caisson design 5 and installation methodology was required to achieve a foundation adequate for the bridge structure. This, together with a late start to bridge construction has combined to result in the bridge being behind schedule by 5 – 6 weeks. Refer to the Schedule section for additional discussion. Additional costs related to the foundation difficulties are also expected, and are currently being evaluated by the Contract Administrator

Completion of the bridge structure is critical to the overall project schedule because adequate time is required in the fall of 2018 for CN’s contractor to complete mainline railwork over the new bridge and transition train traffic off the rail detour (shoofly) and over the new bridge.

Failure to transition trains over the new bridge by the end of the 2018 construction season would result in an inability to complete bulk excavation under the
underpass in the winter of 2018-2019, and severely compromise the ability to complete paving and drainage works under the new underpass in 2019.
Despite the delay to bridge completion, no impact is expected to the overall project schedule. The Public Service continues to work closely with CN to plan the fall 2018 railworks over the new bridge which reflects the anticipated bridge completion date.

If bridge completion date is delayed beyond September 25, 2018, it could result in a 9 to 12 month delay to the overall project completion. However, with bridge foundation works complete as of June 20, 2018, this is deemed to be low risk.

I was writing more about the excavation for the pump chamber that will go about 40' down from the surface to pump the water from the bottom of the underpass to the lake across the street. The hole needs to be safe enough for a human to enter for a couple of months so it needs a higher factor of safety. I don't think they have started it. But I don't really know either. Here is the site plan for it: https://winnipeg.ca/finance/findata/...-BC-001-R0.pdf
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  #4233  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 7:25 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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I could see that being more problematic. Instead of doing the square thing with shoring, they should've gone with a round wet well chamber installed by secant piles (concrete cast in place piles that overlap). Then they excavate out the inside and you have a pump station. In that case, the shoring is the pump station itself.

But I think this is the same thing that went in at Plessis. Same design company so would assume it's the same. I think they had problems there too.

Going down 13m with shoring is deeeep.
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  #4234  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 7:46 PM
plrh plrh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I could see that being more problematic. Instead of doing the square thing with shoring, they should've gone with a round wet well chamber installed by secant piles (concrete cast in place piles that overlap). Then they excavate out the inside and you have a pump station. In that case, the shoring is the pump station itself.

But I think this is the same thing that went in at Plessis. Same design company so would assume it's the same. I think they had problems there too.

Going down 13m with shoring is deeeep.
I don't know what the plan is but in tendering the cheapest plan wins (not necessarily the best one). I don't think secant piles are cheap. There's a million ways to do it but the costs can be astronomical.
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  #4235  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2018, 8:51 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Yes, that's true.

Something that comes up on projects is why would you install a shoring wall just to build another wall in front of it. Just make it one wall.

Transitway project built two pump stations at Jubilee with secant piles. It was cheaper and easier than shoring. I'm not sure how the Parker Pond pump station was built. Would be interesting to see the differences and why.
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  #4236  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2018, 4:57 AM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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I remember hearing at the start of the summer that they were quite a bit ahead of schedule and significantly under budget. So wonder if it balances out, and it still comes in under budget even with these added costs.
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  #4237  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 12:26 AM
cllew cllew is offline
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I was out driving today and noticed that the city had taken one of the mini roundabouts out at Leighton and Roch and put back to the 4 way stop that was there before the roundabout went in.

I have sort of given up on driving down Roch due to all the roundabouts on it so I don't know when over the summer this one was removed.

Does anybody know if any of the other roundabouts have been restored to the original street configuration. (2 way stop or 4 way stop)
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  #4238  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 1:27 AM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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I believe the city classifies 4-ways "higher" than the traffic circles – aka: they might have decided there was too much traffic on that street and "upgraded" it to a 4-way.
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  #4239  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 11:13 AM
cllew cllew is offline
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I was leaning more to the school buses could not make it through the tight radius of the turns so it was converted back to a normal 4 way stop.
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  #4240  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2018, 6:10 PM
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Jeff Jeff is offline
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in what seems to be a breakthrough with actually being consistent for once, the COW finally coordinated itself and placed a full block of the same decorative lighting along Vaughan Street between Portage and Ellice. no miss-match styles or even any overhead cobra light poles. looks good it's still a style that really isn't prominent anywhere else downtown, though...
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