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  #61  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:12 AM
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
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^ I have a next door neighbor who's from Guyana, she definitely doesn't consider herself Latino either. Some classifications lump everyone on the continent of South America as Latino... it's dumb.
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  #62  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:14 AM
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^ I have a next door neighbor who's from Guyana, she definitely doesn't consider herself Latino either. Some classifications lump everyone on the continent of South America as Latino... it's dumb.
Well, Guyana is an anamoly. It and Suriname may be the only non-Latin language countries in S America
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  #63  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:41 AM
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^ Right, but it's just stupid that an entire continent's people can somehow be lumped into a single descripto that has ethnic connotations.

Argentinians of Polish ancestry are Latino, just like Guatemalans of Mayan ancestry are, just like Bolivians of Quecha ancestry are, just like Mexicans of Spanish ancestry are, just like Brazilians of German ancestry are... etc. etc. etc. And they're also all Hispanic too... except for the Brazilians of course.
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  #64  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:45 AM
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^ Right, but it's just stupid that an entire continent's people can somehow be lumped into a single descripto that has ethnic connotations.

Argentinians of Polish ancestry are Latino, just like Guatemalans of Mayan ancestry are, just like Bolivians of Quecha ancestry are, just like Mexicans of Spanish ancestry are, just like Brazilians of German ancestry are... etc. etc. etc. And they're also all Hispanic too... except for the Brazilians of course.
That’s because too many Americans are dumb shits. Tell em they’re foreign brown immigrants, and they’ll eat it up. Bigotry is rampant in our lovely nation.
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  #65  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 5:14 AM
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Honestly, the "Latino/Hispanic" label is confusing now. I used to think as a kid that it included people from Spanish-speaking countries. When I learned it can include people from Romance-language speaking countries, I wondered if Haitians like myself could be considered Afro-Latinos like some Dominicans and Cubans


I think of it as a label for those who are perceived as coming from the south of the US. To some Americans, all Latinos are Mexicans or some variant. But it seems to be used to make a distinction and preserve culture. Like what many mentioned before, many Irish, Italians, and other Americans of straight European descent consider themselves "white" or "American". They have assimilated easily since they can speak English and barely have connections with their country of origin. They also enjoy being a part of the greater American culture.


The group of people known as Hispanics are mixed. Mexicans and Brazilians of only European descent who are first or second generation Americans may or may not consider themselves white depending on the circumstances. I once knew a blonde blue eyed Cuban girl who didn't consider herself white. Part of the reason is culture. Standard US culture is different from the ones south of us. Hispanics who are meszito or mixed with Native American/European more often than not don't identify with being "white". This is probably caused by their own choice like the full or mostly European crew or by existing Americans categorizing them as too "brown" to be in the white club (For lack of a better term).

There are also the Latinos who are mostly of Native American or African descent and they will most identify as "Latino" since they can't identify with white culture. Some (who are African-descended) may identify with black culture, but the ones who are your average Mexican or Peruvian of mostly Native blood will settle for being Hispanic for as long as they are seen as "brown".



I don't mind if the "Hispanic/Latino" label persists. As everyone probably knows already, I'm not a fan of complete assimilation in which even a person's cultural identity is abandoned for the majority's. It may be BS, but it does give these people something to fall back on. It conserves their cultural origins and can enrich their present country. But in the end of the day, identify with whatever you want to identify with.
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  #66  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 2:01 PM
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The people of Guyanese descent I know personally don't refer to themselves as Latino.
Yeah. Haitians (who live on a Caribbean island whose official language is of the "Romance language" family), don't consider themselves to be Latino either.

Their wider identity would be Caribbean or maybe Afro-Caribbean.
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  #67  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:36 PM
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^ Right, but it's just stupid that an entire continent's people can somehow be lumped into a single descripto that has ethnic connotations.
Well, there's "Asian" and "African" and those are the descriptors used for the two largest continents whose inhabitants are also lumped together. Quite a few people dislike that too.
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  #68  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:38 PM
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Guyanese are typically a mix of Indian and black African, with maybe some native blood. They generally identify with West Indians, though, but don't consider themselves black or Indian. They would never identify as Hispanic, ever.

Guyanese are actually in the Top 5 of immigrants to NYC. They're very under-the-radar, but the local community is huge, and they dominate two neighborhoods.
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  #69  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
When I learned it can include people from Romance-language speaking countries, I wondered if Haitians like myself could be considered Afro-Latinos like some Dominicans and Cubans
But that would mean that Quebecois are Latinos.
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  #70  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:43 PM
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Also re. Latino definition, it isn't difficult. Peoples from Spanish New World holdings.

People who speak Spanish (or, if they speak Native languages, originate in areas where Spanish is the official language).
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  #71  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:48 PM
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I think people just have issues with the idea that though "officially" Latino in the US Census is defined by cultural/linguistic grounds, other people interpret it as having some kind of blood or race-based connotation, even regarding physical appearance.

Since Latino is defined by language and culture, Latinos can look like any race. But some people seem to think otherwise, especially when you hear all this talk about who "looks Latino".

I think one way to approach it is if using a cultural definition to describe a demographic group of people, then stick to a cultural definition. If using an ancestry-based definition, then stick to it. But if you conflate and use a term with one connotation and then flip to another it confuses people.

Then again, no one can force anyone how to self identify, so even if you say "use this definition" there's no guarantee everyone will be on the same page.
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  #72  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Since Latino is defined by language and culture, Latinos can look like any race. But some people seem to think otherwise, especially when you hear all this talk about who "looks Latino".
Most Latinos in the U.S. are Mexicans with some indigenous background, so it isn't inaccurate. There aren't that many blond or black Latinos in most of the U.S. Obviously in places like Miami or NYC, there are big exceptions.

Latino isn't a racial category, it's just a Census ethnic identifier, like what they're now contemplating with Middle East background.
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  #73  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:09 PM
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Latino isn't defined by language and culture. How many Brazilian mariachi bands do you know of?

Latino is a play off 'Latin America', a term Napoleon III coined to differentiate this region from the 'Anglo US' in trying to form a kindred connection it and France's own Latin roots...so he could justify invading it later on. It was us 150 years later that created a made up ethnicity for everyone there.
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  #74  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:24 PM
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Latino isn't defined by language and culture. How many Brazilian mariachi bands do you know of?
But Brazilians don't identify as Latino. That wouldn't make sense.

Most U.S. Latinos are Mexican, so, not surprisingly, they dominate the discourse.
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  #75  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:28 PM
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Well, there's "Asian" and "African" and those are the descriptors used for the two largest continents whose inhabitants are also lumped together. Quite a few people dislike that too.
Totally true.

But abiding by that same continental descriptor method, then at least we could say "South American", which is broad enough to encompass numerous races and nationalities/ethnicities/cultures. But we really don't... it's Hispanic or Latino generally.
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  #76  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:29 PM
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
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But Brazilians don't identify as Latino. That wouldn't make sense.

Most U.S. Latinos are Mexican, so, not surprisingly, they dominate the discourse.
Depends on who you ask. I lived in Brazil for 7 years and plenty of people idenitfy themselves as a Latin or Latino/Latina.

Just not Hispanic.
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  #77  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:46 PM
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Half black = black
Half native = American Indian
Half white = non white

A white woman has kids with a Hispanic man, their kids are Hispanic even though they speak English and are white because they would not check the "NON-HISPANIC WHITE" box, especially if their surname is Garcia.
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  #78  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:57 PM
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But Brazilians don't identify as Latino. That wouldn't make sense.

Most U.S. Latinos are Mexican, so, not surprisingly, they dominate the discourse.
Latino is a blanket term we (as Americans) are giving to anyone south of Texas. This is why we use the term Latino instead of Hispanic...to cover (mostly) everyone from there. Whether they acknowledge it or not. Forget Brazil, they don't have mariachi bands in Argentina either....though I'd tango to mariachi music.
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  #79  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 4:59 PM
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Depends on who you ask. I lived in Brazil for 7 years and plenty of people idenitfy themselves as a Latin or Latino/Latina.

Just not Hispanic.
Yes; Brazilians are Latino (at least by US definition) but not Hispanic. Hispanic implies "of/derived or having to do with Spanish culture/language"... which wouldn't apply to Brazil/Brazilians.

I worked with a young Brazilian woman years ago; she told me that "in Brazil, I am white, but here in the US, I am Latina!"
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