What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago, or NYC levels?

[One ATLien]

I think the number one thing holding Atlanta back, at least from a culture and touristic perspective is its connectivity issue. Atlanta has almost everything that any major city in north america has to offer and more in some cases, it's just not as centralized or well connected as those other major cities, would be great though if we have more architectural masterpieces as well. The good news, connectivity is a work in progress now, and we should see that change drastically over the coming few years. Don't forget though, that in this modern age, Hip-Hop and R&B play a huge roll in Atlanta's popularity from a culture perspective both overseas and domestically.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by One ATLien

Are you referring to metro population? If so those numbers are way off.. as of 2015 Metro San Diego has about 3.3 Million and Detroit has about 4.3 Million.
In comparison Atlanta has 5.7 Million

We're referring to Detroit and San Diego's total population as transborder agglomerations.

These two cities are unique compared to just about every other Metro area in that a sizable portion of their "region" lives in a different country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transborder_agglomeration

[mello]

I was never saying DTW had a lesser airport of course it is superior, I was stating that a quick Google search shows the combined land crossings of San Ysidro/Otay Mesa constitute by far the busiest international border in the world. Not Detroit/Windsor.

Regarding Metro Pops maybe he was counting the combined cross border population with San Diego getting a much bigger boost from a large Tijuana and Detroit being the monster with the quite small Windsor across the river.

And in my previous post I wasn't saying that Atlanta's competition per say in status is Nashville/Austin but in my circles most people from the West look at those cities as being much more desirable places to live than Atlanta.

In my experience not many people say "Oh I love Atlanta and could definitely live there". They are talking about Denver, Austin, Nashville, as places they would want to move to that are cheaper than Coastal WC Cities (Inner Denver Obviously isn't that cheap anymore). Atlanta is kind of perceived as being "too much" like a hot flat LA in terms of traffic and just being a big Corporate HQ city with the big airport and no soul.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by JManc

When people in Hungary or China think of "San Francisco" they don't think of Apple or Google, they think of trolleys, Rice-A-Roni and Haight-Ashbury.

I think you're very, very wrong about that. They think about all of those things. And wine country, and the golden gate bridge, alcatraz, etc.

A ten second youtube search for "san francisco" brings up hundreds of travel videos where the tech industry is a main focus. It's clear that to people outside of the Bay Area, SF and "silicon valley" is often seen as the same thing (my personal experience with visitors backs this up too). And honestly, it kinda is the same thing. Metro areas and all that, not to mention the presence of the tech sector in SF city-proper has been booming over the past decade.

[One ATLien]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

We're referring to Detroit and San Diego's total population as transborder agglomerations.

These two cities are unique compared to just about every other Metro area in that a sizable portion of their "region" lives in a different country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transborder_agglomeration

Oh I see..

[ardecila]

Many forumers here think way too highly of urban form as being important. International recognition doesn't depend on having dense neighborhoods, walkable streets, and a good subway system. For a long time, tourists were impressed that Chicago has these things, but only because they had no expectations coming in. LA's only now focusing on these things, but it definitely rose to worldwide prominence without them. It honestly doesn't matter.

Honestly, I would argue that Atlanta is following in LA's footsteps. Endless sprawl, congested highways, a booming entertainment industry as part of a diversified economy, plenty of migrants moving in for warmer weather. It could easily be LA in the 1960s minus the beaches.

Film production is maybe over-rated, and that stuff follows tax credits anyway (I'm tired of Dick Wolf blocking my street for his Chicago shows). But Atlanta's become a much bigger center for music recording and production. It's probably the biggest recording center outside of LA/NY, although maybe Nashville comes close. It's every bit as significant now as Motown was in the 1960s/70s, but it's not dominated by one label.

Politically, it'll be interesting to see if demographics ultimately turns Georgia blue. Atlanta is attracting tons of immigrants and plenty of left-leaning Millennials as well. Remember, even California had a strong Republican Party like the rest of the Western states before LA and SF exploded and turned the state deep blue.

[SteveD]

As an Atlantan, this thread is interesting/amusing to me.

Atlanta most certainly isn't "flat". It's situated in the Piedmont region. It's fabled for it's forested rolling hills. Also, being situated in the Piedmont, it's rarely as hot as locales to the east, west and south. In fact as far as big metros go, it's second highest in elevation to only Denver.

I've always thought Atlanta "punched above it's weight" as far as recognition, influence, regional/national/international influence. I think it's much more "known" than several other larger top ten US metros. But, what do I know, that's just the way it feels to me.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Atlanta to its credit is the home of a massive black middle and upper class, which maybe should be more well known internationally especially these days. in terms of contemporary black culture, it's #1 in the US, ahead of DC.

but other southern cities are more culturally significant (memphis, new orleans, nashville), prettier and more historic (charleston, savannah, new orleans) which takes away from the recognition it would otherwise get

New Orleans...pretty? LOL, the French Quarter and Canal St. is one section of town, the place would be a malarial marsh/swamp without human intervention. For a big city, Atlanta is very scenic. All that's missing is a coastal area or maybe a few towering mountains.

And there's more to being culturally significant than being a tourist trap. As you noted, Atlanta is the capital of African-American culture but also home to CNN and Turner, which is on pretty much everyone's cable system. Atlanta is the capital of the Deep South and beats those places by a mile culturally speaking.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Many forumers here think way too highly of urban form as being important. International recognition doesn't depend on having dense neighborhoods, walkable streets, and a good subway system. For a long time, tourists were impressed that Chicago has these things, but only because they had no expectations coming in. LA's only now focusing on these things, but it definitely rose to worldwide prominence without them. It honestly doesn't matter.

Honestly, I would argue that Atlanta is following in LA's footsteps. Endless sprawl, congested highways, a booming entertainment industry as part of a diversified economy, plenty of migrants moving in for warmer weather. It could easily be LA in the 1960s minus the beaches.

Film production is maybe over-rated, and that stuff follows tax credits anyway (I'm tired of Dick Wolf blocking my street for his Chicago shows). But Atlanta's become a much bigger center for music recording and production. It's probably the biggest recording center outside of LA/NY, although maybe Nashville comes close. It's every bit as significant now as Motown was in the 1960s/70s, but it's not dominated by one label.

I agree with you on most points, except the bolded.

Based on the number of recording studios outside of NYC/LA, Nashville is followed by Chicago, Miami and then Atlanta.

BTW, the world's first African-American Museum for Music (one dedicated to *ALL* African-American music, not just Motown) is currently under construction in Nashville. It's scheduled to open in 2019.

https://www.nmaam.org

[chris08876]

I want to propose the idea that immigration on a mass level AND historical events helped or lets say was a big asset in creating the 3 cities in the OP's title to the level where they are at.

If we look at LA, NY, and Chitown, all were at one point major hubs of immigration. Still are to this day, but I'd say the sudden influx of new residents, ideas, businesses, and so on helped build the economic juggernauts that they are, the history, the culture, and all that comes with it. The brain drain from other countries to "X" city is a big asset.

Could Atlanta get that big or for a matter any other U.S. city besides those 3, yes... in theory, but time is really the measure. Time and events.

Afterall, great cities are really the outcome of luck, timing, and history.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Politically, it'll be interesting to see if demographics ultimately turns Georgia blue. Atlanta is attracting tons of immigrants and plenty of left-leaning Millennials as well. Remember, even California had a strong Republican Party like the rest of the Western states before LA and SF exploded and turned the state deep blue.

Georgia probably won't go blue for several more decades, but I definitely see it being a formidable swing state by 2024 (if not sooner).

[caligrad]

Well this is a topic that is on the verge of going to He**. But. i'll chime in anyway.

What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago and NYC Levels?

Easy.

A couple of things.

Economic Power. Media presence. Location. Educational institutes. Size. Population. Allure. Prestige. Transit. List goes on.

I could break it down for you. But. You might not like what I have to say.

But. think about this one sliver of information.

The entire population of the state of Georgia is about 10.3 million.....
Los Angeles metro population alone is at 13 million, and its GREATER metro numbers are at 18 million when you include surrounding counties. So.

NYC and LA both have populations greater than most states AND greater than some countries. When a city reaches that size, its a major WORLD player. Atlanta doesn't have this yet. Not saying it wont get there, but as of right now. its not. its a secondary city to NYC, LA and Chicago.

When you travel abroad. Only 6 cities come to peoples minds in regards to the USA. NYC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, DC and Miami.

Houston JUST started getting global attention, unfortunately because of Harvey.

And Detroit hasn't been a major player in the auto industry for a long time so that one being mentioned is a head scratcher.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

New Orleans...pretty? LOL, the French Quarter and Canal St. is one section of town, the place would be a malarial marsh/swamp without human intervention. For a big city, Atlanta is very scenic. All that's missing is a coastal area or maybe a few towering mountains.

And there's more to being culturally significant than being a tourist trap. As you noted, Atlanta is the capital of African-American culture but also home to CNN and Turner, which is on pretty much everyone's cable system. Atlanta is the capital of the Deep South and beats those places by a mile culturally speaking.

I agree with you as far as Atlanta's scenary.

It has the best tree canopies (along its roadways) out of any city I've been to.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by caligrad

And Detroit hasn't been a major player in the auto industry for a long time so that one being mentioned is a head scratcher.

So again, that's just not true.

Not to bring up the conversation again, but let's review the facts:

*Every global auto supplier (if not based in Detroit) has a sizable presence in the city.

*Detroit is home to the densest automotive supply chain in the world.

*The R&D operations of every major automaker is based in Detroit.

*Detroit boasts one of the highest concentration of Engineers in the world.

The fact that even Toyota was lobbying the government to rescue GM / Chrysler / Ford during the financial crisis shows how critical Detroit is to the health of the auto industry.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by caligrad

Well this is a topic that is on the verge of going to He**. But. i'll chime in anyway.

What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago and NYC Levels?

Easy.

A couple of things.

Economic Power. Media presence. Location. Educational institutes. Size. Population. Allure. Prestige. Transit. List goes on.

I could break it down for you. But. You might not like what I have to say.

But. think about this one sliver of information.

The entire population of the state of Georgia is about 10.3 million.....
Los Angeles metro population alone is at 13 million, and its GREATER metro numbers are at 18 million when you include surrounding counties. So.

NYC and LA both have populations greater than most states AND greater than some countries. When a city reaches that size, its a major WORLD player. Atlanta doesn't have this yet. Not saying it wont get there, but as of right now. its not. its a secondary city to NYC, LA and Chicago.

When you travel abroad. Only 6 cities come to peoples minds in regards to the USA. NYC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, DC and Miami.

Houston JUST started getting global attention, unfortunately because of Harvey.

And Detroit hasn't been a major player in the auto industry for a long time so that one being mentioned is a head scratcher.

Yep. Not sure why everyone keeps regurgitating Black culture and hip hop, as if Atlanta is the only city in the US with hip hop culture. And even if it were the only hip hop producing city in the country, this doesn't even put it anywhere near NYC and LA in terms of global significance. Does Lil Jon being from Atlanta bring in tourists from China? Do they care where MLK Jr was born?

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Yep. Not sure why everyone keeps regurgitating Black culture and hip hop, as if Atlanta is the only city in the US with hip hop culture. And even if it were the only hip hop producing city in the country, this doesn't even put it anywhere near NYC and LA in terms of global significance. Does Lil Jon being from Atlanta bring in tourists from China? Do they care where MLK Jr was born?

Other than LA and NYC, there really isn't any other city that had as much of an influence on black culture and hip hop music as Atlanta.

Sure, it's not the only city in the country *WITH* it, but no other city outside of NYC / LA / Atlanta has played a pivotal part in shaping it in the past 30 years.

[One ATLien]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Many forumers here think way too highly of urban form as being important. International recognition doesn't depend on having dense neighborhoods, walkable streets, and a good subway system. For a long time, tourists were impressed that Chicago has these things, but only because they had no expectations coming in. LA's only now focusing on these things, but it definitely rose to worldwide prominence without them. It honestly doesn't matter.

Honestly, I would argue that Atlanta is following in LA's footsteps. Endless sprawl, congested highways, a booming entertainment industry as part of a diversified economy, plenty of migrants moving in for warmer weather. It could easily be LA in the 1960s minus the beaches.

Film production is maybe over-rated, and that stuff follows tax credits anyway (I'm tired of Dick Wolf blocking my street for his Chicago shows). But Atlanta's become a much bigger center for music recording and production. It's probably the biggest recording center outside of LA/NY, although maybe Nashville comes close. It's every bit as significant now as Motown was in the 1960s/70s, but it's not dominated by one label.

Politically, it'll be interesting to see if demographics ultimately turns Georgia blue. Atlanta is attracting tons of immigrants and plenty of left-leaning Millennials as well. Remember, even California had a strong Republican Party like the rest of the Western states before LA and SF exploded and turned the state deep blue.

Every time people tell me how much they liked a place they have visited, whether in the United States or abroad they always go on to explain how charming/fun/exciting/lively and walkable the neighborhoods are. I think urban form plays a huge role in international recognition, generally speaking the most popular cities to visit have a great well connected urban environment. London, Paris, Rome, Vienna, NYC, San Francisco, Hong Kong, the list can go on. With the exception of a few cities such as LA, urban form does historically and currently play a huge role in how visitors perceive a city thus helping in international recognition. I'm not saying it is the only factor but it it definitely a major factor in how outsiders perceive a city. How can you say "it doesn't matter".

[pizzaguy]

delete

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by atlwarrior

. I also wouldn't put Chicago on that list.

Yeah Chicago is way closer to Atlanta than Chicago being LA or NYC caliber

[Eightball]

But yeah Atlanta has had a top 3 or top 5 hip hop scene IN THE WORLD since at least 92