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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2018, 12:57 AM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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Electric Ferries

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... the MF Ampere demonstrates ... technology ... used to replace all traditional engines on ferries operating on short crossings. The project also validates the use of ESS shore charging stations where port electrical infrastructure is weak. ... The 80-meter vessel can carry 120 cars and 360 passengers.


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... innovative design offered by Siemens AS and Corvus Energy, the port electric grid infrastructure remains virtually unchanged. Rather than installing additional electrical capacity to the ports, an onshore Corvus Energy 410kWh ESS comprised of 63 AT6500 Liquid-Cooled modules was installed on both sides of the route, each providing near instantaneous transfer of power to the vessel ESS. ...
http://corvusenergy.com/marine-project/mf-ampere-ferry/

Corvus is a Canadian company. BC Hydro is owned by the province as is BC Ferries. Seems like a great way to internalize costs using the extra Site C electricity offset. BC Ferries has explored electrification on some routes. Lots are less than 5.6km What about even Vancouver's Seabus since Vancouver has this Greenest City ambition?
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2018, 2:32 AM
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Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post




http://corvusenergy.com/marine-project/mf-ampere-ferry/

Corvus is a Canadian company. BC Hydro is owned by the province as is BC Ferries. Seems like a great way to internalize costs using the extra Site C electricity offset. BC Ferries has explored electrification on some routes. Lots are less than 5.6km What about even Vancouver's Seabus since Vancouver has this Greenest City ambition?
The Seabus is Translink, "Greenest City" is city of Vancouver.

I think the best fit would be for the Bowen Island Ferry.
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2018, 4:58 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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The Sunshine Coast might be a good fit too.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 11:41 PM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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Didn't the harbour ferries (False Creek) operate electrified for a while?

Another place, they said they're still having some issues with this ferry's availability in Norway. Interesting though. Expect to see hybrid (think Toyota Prius) BC ferries in the future, so they can use cheaper (smaller) engines. It sounds like that's almost all they are building in the Baltic, though with higher fuel taxes the economics might be different.
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 11:44 PM
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As an aside, the new budget reduces some ferry fares and reinstates free mid-week rides for seniors. It will be interesting to see if construction of new ships comes back to BC as well.
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
Didn't the harbour ferries (False Creek) operate electrified for a while?

Another place, they said they're still having some issues with this ferry's availability in Norway. Interesting though. Expect to see hybrid (think Toyota Prius) BC ferries in the future, so they can use cheaper (smaller) engines. It sounds like that's almost all they are building in the Baltic, though with higher fuel taxes the economics might be different.
Hybrid uses don't really help a boat. The stop/start energy recovery is most of what happens to help a hybrid get good mileage. The cruising speed of a boat is also likely matched up to the engine's peak efficiency.

Most large motors are also setup as a diesel/electric combo, where the diesel is just a generator and the electric motors do the work, so by default boats and trains are already similar to a hybrid car.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 3:00 AM
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As an aside, the new budget reduces some ferry fares and reinstates free mid-week rides for seniors. It will be interesting to see if construction of new ships comes back to BC as well.
I was told the key reason many of these have gone off-shore is Seaspan drydocks are occupied by the military and coast guard contracts.
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 9:44 PM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
Hybrid uses don't really help a boat. The stop/start energy recovery is most of what happens to help a hybrid get good mileage. The cruising speed of a boat is also likely matched up to the engine's peak efficiency.

Most large motors are also setup as a diesel/electric combo, where the diesel is just a generator and the electric motors do the work, so by default boats and trains are already similar to a hybrid car.
So given that using electricity is much cheaper than diesel, and already owned by another branch of the government, couldn't the battery portion be sized either:

1. for the cruising speed with the diesel engine kicking in only leaving the dock

2. as an assist to the diesel engine generating electricity (diesel-electric engine) only when leaving the dock


Note: "All-electric ferry cuts emission by 95% and costs by 80%, brings in 53 additional orders"

https://electrek.co/2018/02/03/all-e...emission-cost/

This 2015 blog post outlines a possible eight routes: https://www.bcsea.org/could-bcs-futu...es-be-electric

There's speculation that diesel costs might be headed up medium term with IMO 2020 rules too. LNG conversions also require bigger capital upgrades. LNG prices could also be higher 2020/2023 with LNG export terminal in BC making dirt cheap stranded AECO nat gas quintuple in price. Apparently the MV Tachek and Salish class are already hybrid.

I imagine the upfront capital cost is higher both for the ferry and for the onshore electrical changes offsetting much of the 80% lower operating costs just as it is with diesel transit buses.

The other negative is less ability to shuffle ferries around as easily to different routes per a CBC article.
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 9:49 PM
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Anyone ridden on the new ferry yet?

IIRC these new ferries are on Powell River to Comox and Salts Spring to Tsawassen.
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 9:53 PM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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5 more new vessels on the way 2020-2022

http://www.cruiseandferry.net/articl...senger-ferries
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  #91  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
Anyone ridden on the new ferry yet?

IIRC these new ferries are on Powell River to Comox and Salts Spring to Tsawassen.
Ya, I take the Saltspring one pretty frequently, they're ok.

The whole sealing off the lower floor thing is beyond a drag though.
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2018, 3:06 AM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
Note: "All-electric ferry cuts emission by 95% and costs by 80%, brings in 53 additional orders"

https://electrek.co/2018/02/03/all-e...emission-cost/
That's really quite interesting, and I have little doubt that it's the way of the future as battery costs continue to drop.

But the current solution requires a lot of shore infrastructure in addition to the ferries themselves, and my guess is that right now the cost equation is a little too expensive on the capital cost side for BC Ferries to swallow. And it probably doesn't help that it reduces their flexibility - in a pinch the electric ferries wouldn't be able to be swapped into a route that doesn't have the shore infrastructure.

Perhaps in the next or subsequent rounds of ferry purchases...?
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  #93  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2018, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
Anyone ridden on the new ferry yet?

IIRC these new ferries are on Powell River to Comox and Salts Spring to Tsawassen.
Yep, I've taken them to Pender Island from Tsawassen before. much less seating than the old Queen of Nanaimo.
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