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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
"cleveland has this behemoth, echoing downtown"

I don't know if 'behemoth' applies, but it's not the echoing place it used to be.
all big downtowns echo, manhattan echos, the loop is a ridiculous cacophony. it just has that huge feel.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 2:51 PM
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Lyon
Marseille
Toulouse
Lille
Bordeaux
Nice
Nantes
Strasbourg
Rennes
Montpellier
...

Basically everything in France, so Paris would overshoot, then all the country would more or less looks like it, as representative of urban consistency and harmony.
It's true that there are lots of quaint pretty historic things over the country. Enough to make anyone go jelly and sore. It's pretty unparalleled when it comes to remarkable historic heritage. I guess only Italy and Spain can reasonably claim to compete in the Eruo league in that matter.

But this Parisian system is basically obnoxious like enslavement to some extent, and too slow.
I say it as a faithful Frenchman. I consider myself to be a French national before just a Parisian.
As such, I wish development was faster all over the country, should some other cities surpass Paris itself in the end, within many decades from now.

I've always thought Lyon was the strongest of all underdogs. It has some kind of bad temper. In my experience, lots of their locals are aggressive by nature, so I would expect it to arise at global level slightly sooner than others.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 3:01 PM
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i've always thought lyon seemed wonderful, if perhaps in the huge rain shadow of paris, at least internationally.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Not if the NIMBYs have their say. NIMBYs would make sure that Space Command headquarters would be reduced to space command outhouse only.
I was just going to say....
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Really? I never understood people getting annoyed at too many pictures unless you're using dial-up and you have Windows 98. I am all for as many pictures as possible 99% of the time.
For me if I wanted to see a million pictures I would go to the photo threads, on here I like to read what everyones talking about and if you need to post pictures just keep them short and to the point.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 5:12 PM
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I recall hearing that Port Townsend, Washington was expected to become a major city due to it's access from the ocean for a port. But the railroad stopped in Seattle and didn't continue on to the Olympic peninsula.

Duluth, Minnesota was a huge boomtown in the late 1800's-early 1900's due to the iron from iron range communities and it's situation as the western most of the great lakes ports. But growth maxed out by 1920 and the city has had virtually no growth since then. But, on the plus side, it's got a great collection of early 20th century architecture.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by twig View Post
Tuscon is the number one city in the US that is most like Chicago, lots of snowbirds from there making the culture almost identical when comparing it to any other city!

To prove my points:

For example, the influence of Chicago on Tuscon has brought with it the fancy grid system:
Where is Tuscon? As an American with a home in southern Arizona I've never heard of it. How can this be. I live near a town called Tucson and I've asked around there and drawn a blank.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MplsTodd View Post
Duluth, Minnesota was a huge boomtown in the late 1800's-early 1900's due to the iron from iron range communities and it's situation as the western most of the great lakes ports. But growth maxed out by 1920 and the city has had virtually no growth since then. But, on the plus side, it's got a great collection of early 20th century architecture.
had a i been an 18th century colonialist staring at a map of the vast interior wilderness of north america, i would probably have expected a large city to develop where duluth is. not necessarily a chicago, but at least a milwaukee or buffalo.

it has a wonderful deep water natural harbor and is so deep into the continent, but with great lakes access to the east. it really is a bit strange that duluth didn't become more of a thing. i guess the railroads came into being at the right time to blow-up the twin cities into the big-time, likely at the expense of duluth's prospects for growth.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2018, 10:51 PM
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I think there will be a serious rise in the northern great lakes (Duluth, Marquette, Houghton, Thunder Bay) in the distant future when climate change warms them up a bit, it's literally the perfect region for human habitation and distribution, it's also a nice perk that those cities are gorgeous.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Where is Tuscon? As an American with a home in southern Arizona I've never heard of it. How can this be. I live near a town called Tucson and I've asked around there and drawn a blank.
Tuscon must be the capital of Tuscany. Oh wait, that's Florence.

I think Eureka has kind of stalled as lumbering ebbed. Nice place to live if you don't mind cool & gloomy & rainy winters & cool summers as well, and periodic earthquakes. Nice old houses. Quite cheap, or they once were. Redwood Empire.

Coos Bay Oregon also never quite lived up to its potential as a port. Same for Aberdeen/Hoquiam Washington. Lumbering booms & busts. Plus paper mills smell....bad.

Utica NY, yes, that is a stalled 19th century Erie Canal town.

Portland Maine was once expected to be much larger, a mini Boston. But it has developed into a fairly charming small city.

Last edited by CaliNative; Sep 22, 2018 at 10:28 AM.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
in the great lakes region, the northern areas became the places of resource extraction and the lower portion became the places of resource processing.

resource processing proved to be far more conducive to city building, hence why the lower half of the great lakes region has mighty cities like chicago, toronto, detroit, cleveland, milwaukee, buffalo, hamilton and the upper half has small little hamlets like duluth, thunder bay, green bay, sault st. marie, marquette, escanaba and is radically underdeveloped by comparison.
Yes all that makes sense..Had there been more cities north of these cities mentioned, then perhaps shipping would of gone both ways, rather then just mainly out of places like Thunder Bay and Duluth making their ports busier.Just as a side note, years ago I knew of a guy who worked on one of those Lakers, and I remember him telling me that he he's been from Thunder Bay to Chicago, delivering grain I imagine. I just can't remember if it was a regular route or a one off..
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
As was discussed in another thread recently, the main reason that the southern cities didn't grow was because of malaria and yellow fever, which continued to be problems into the 19th century. Although they always depressed population growth due to death, in the south itself they weren't as big of a deal, because most people got them in childhood, when it's not a big deal to spend six months laid up in a bed. But they were terrible for immigration, because what company is going to sponsor an immigrant labor force coming in if they know half of them will become laid up with illness very shortly. The lack of appeal to immigrants meant the South mostly missed out on 19th century industrialization (outside of Louisville). Even industries which relied on southern raw materials - like cotton textiles - were mostly done in New England rather than the south well into the early 20th century.

Malaria in particular played a big role not just in the geography of the U.S. South, but Latin America as well. There's a reason why the capitols of Mexico, nearly every Central American nation, Colombia, and Ecuador are all in the highlands. It's just much easier for cities to grow when you don't have to worry about people dying from every stagnant pool of water.
And in one of the few Southern cities up in the mountains and not prone to hot-weather diseases, the railroad didn't reach us until 1883. As jd3189 mentioned, my own city could have been a considerably more major player than it ended up being had we gotten the railroad a couple of decades earlier. Had we been allowed to boom for seventy years instead of the fifty we got, we'd probably be about as big as Raleigh today.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post

Berlin also has the bones of a larger place.
Yep.

Berlin had to overcome huge historical burdens. Keep in mind that the city was 50% destroyed in 1945. Then West-Berlin was a defacto geopolitically isolated enclave from 1961-1989. All elites and major companies fled from this place. The Eastern part, capital of the GDR, was economically mismanaged by a socialist regime.

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, from 1990-2000, the city experienced a loss of 250.000 manufacturing jobs because Eastern German companies broke down. From 2000-2010 around 50.000 jobs in the city´s administration were cut, the unemployment rate in this time was 15- 20%. Only since then, after 2010, Berlin is re-emerging and growing, culturally, technologically, economically, demographically.

As a matter of fact: Some rail connections from Berlin are still not as fast than in pre-1933 levels. Berlin still has no competitive airport. A new one is set to be opened in 2020.

Although all these hardships had to be endured for around 70 years, Berlin in 2017 had the 4th largest city GDP in the EU after London, Paris and Madrid. So the potential for a prosperous future is there.

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Last edited by Lear; Sep 23, 2018 at 10:36 AM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 9:43 PM
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By city GDP, you mean, city proper.
Take in mind that the city proper of Berlin is the second most populated in EU.
Having the 4th largest city proper GDP for the 2nd most populated city proper is not that great.

If you count the metropolitan area, the city is further away in the european ranking.

Anyway I agree that Berlin is growing and it is becoming a more and more important city. It has become very attractive for business.
I see a potential for a prosperous future as you said.

Last edited by Minato Ku; Sep 23, 2018 at 12:55 PM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2018, 11:52 PM
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ill take a more pragmatic approach to this topic. i dont think any sizable american metropolis would count. aside from cleveland, pittsburgh and hartford last census, has any large metro area ever posted an actual loss in the last 20 years. instead, id say the hundreds of small satellite cities that propped up aging industrial centers are the ones whose days are numbered. the saginaws, bay city's or coos bays of america. places too far from the big city they helped support now that what ever industry helped them prosper is no longer around. thats the real challenge. withered downtowns dont mean withering regions. the CBD is just another neighborhood in a larger landscape, and even most downtowns in million plus metros are having some kind of comeback.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2018, 1:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
"New Yorky"? People...no...just no. And don't tell anyone from Jersey they are "New Yorky"
Didn't you move away 20 yrs ago? Not sure you are still entitled to a say in the matter. No offense
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2018, 2:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
had a i been an 18th century colonialist staring at a map of the vast interior wilderness of north america, i would probably have expected a large city to develop where duluth is. not necessarily a chicago, but at least a milwaukee or buffalo.

it has a wonderful deep water natural harbor and is so deep into the continent, but with great lakes access to the east. it really is a bit strange that duluth didn't become more of a thing. i guess the railroads came into being at the right time to blow-up the twin cities into the big-time, likely at the expense of duluth's prospects for growth.
When the Great Northern chose St Paul rather than Duluth as it's eastern terminus, Duluth's fate was sealed. The decision was probably driven by the fact that southern Minnesota was rich farmland while the north was just minerals and trees which made it inevitable that southern Minnesota would be more heavily settled and therefore generate more rail traffic.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2018, 4:39 AM
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Didn't you move away 20 yrs ago? Not sure you are still entitled to a say in the matter. No offense
Yes my moving away totally erased the fact I grew up and still have ties there. Besides, you're in California so your opinion is relavant..how?
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2018, 6:17 AM
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Yes my moving away totally erased the fact I grew up and still have ties there. Besides, you're in California so your opinion is relavant..how?
Californians firmly believe they have the answers for the entire country if only the rest would listen. When I try explaining things to them about the world outside their bubble--things like, oh, "Hillary isn't the shoo-in you think she is"--I get nowhere. See, I grew up out there in the great wasteland and spent half my life there before entering the bubble. I know how BBQ should taste. Pizza too.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2018, 7:25 AM
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Halifax has a valid excuse for excuse...………..the Halifax Explosion of 1917.


A war ship full of munitions collided with another and the result was the largest man-made explosion prior to the nuclear bomb. The ship explosion was so massive that it killed 1600 people INSTANTLY, destroyed every single building within 800 meters, and was so powerful that it actually created it`s own tsunami in the port. A total of 3500 died in the first day and 9000 were injured. The port was wiped out and with it all industry leading to mass unemployment as 12,000 people instantly had their work places destroyed. You have heard of the fairly recent explosion of 'the mother of all bombs'?...……..well the Halifax explosion was a staggering 270 X more powerful with an explosion force of 3000 TONS of TNT.


Boston came to Halifax's rescue big time and to this day every year Halifax sends a huge Christmas tree in thanks.
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