The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Maybe it isn't a question of it being an either/or situation. But it is a question of priority and urgency. So to sink $76 million into a 50-year old government office when the provincial public museum, which happens also to be a much older greek-revival structure on the verge of ruin, is clearly an outrageous move. The museum has been asking for only $40 million of funding for a decade, it's not new.

I think you're missing the point here, if they didn't even apply for this funding but Centennial Building did that's their loss unfortunately. It's all a matter of perspective...there are many projects needing funding around NB...one could argue some NB Power projects or transportation projects are much more needed for public good as opposed to an old museum...there will always be something out there that "needs it more" depending who you ask...

Not saying you're wrong in terms of museum vs centennial building as I agree (I never liked centennial building much)...but again it's not up to us, the funding had specific requirements and applications etc.

[Freddypop]

One fact that has not yet been discussed is that whether it be Federal or Provincial $$$ that the city is looking to for help ie museum or other, they must put together a priority list. The Feds/Prov will work on the priority list with city officials. One thing for certain is they cannot fund everything. In this particular case I would be interested where on Saint John's priority list the museum upgrade sits...first, third. tenth, other?

I know that the Centennial Building issue has been percolating for years. Successive governments were unable to take a decision on its future. The result was that no private investment was forthcoming for downtown Freddy until the PNB decided the fate of their building. As such the COF identified it as a priority and made their case, similar to the recent water quality upgrades Saint John had identified as a priority. The courthouse was a priority identified in the COF municipal plan and was also a priority for the PNB. So this specific funding opportunity was a good fit for this project.

Another example is the concern that some have voiced re the lack of financial support for Saint John Airport. Well in this case the Saint John has identified its priority area as the Port of Saint John. So that is were funds are targeted. Moncton and Freddy do not have ports so similar priorities are focused on their respective airports.

The museum requires upgrades for sure and its time will come. Be patient

[McKay]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

So the only argument for the Centennial Building being "culturally significant" is the fact that it was built 50 years ago?

The Centennial building is an asbestos-filled concrete box office building. It is not culturally, nor even architecturally significant in any way.

John Leroux does a good job of explaining its significance and value. You might find this article to be a good introduction: https://dalspace.library.dal.ca/bits...=1&isAllowed=y

As of last year, the building was only 32% occupied. Thirty two.

The intention for several years has been to empty it out so that necessary renovations/restoration could take place. Apparently various areas can't be isolated with respect to the mechanical systems, making it infeasible to renovate while it's even partially occupied. Until a final decision was made on how to proceed, I suppose the impetus wasn't really there to move the last few occupants out. I understand that the last department left before Christmas, and the clinic will move as soon as the new location near Westmorland Street is ready.

[saintjohnirish☘]

This is madness. We have to come to grips with reality and take on Irving

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...john-1.4004495

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

This is madness. We have to come to grips with reality and take on Irving

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...john-1.4004495

I know. That is blatant sour grapes. Any other situation, if your land lost 2/3rds of its value, the owner would be majorly upset. But with the timing and everything, this feels very convenient.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

This is madness. We have to come to grips with reality and take on Irving

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...john-1.4004495

I don't think it's as simple as saying it's Irving's fault. Forcing the Irving's to pay full taxes on a less than profitable venture would only take cash from them that would have to be taken away from somewhere else, ultimately causing lower employment and/or a reduced tax base anyway. A private business, or even a publicly financed business has to survive on it's balance sheet.

You might argue that if there was a larger diversified business sector that forcing the Irving's to pay wouldn't be such a potential sacrifice in the end. But that is not dealing with the situation that exists.

Everybody is living in a reduced profitability situation and manufacturing is not likely to return to anywhere in North America unless we start selling labour at Chinese prices. Even Donald Trump supporters in their quiet moments are questioning his ability to bring back any jobs that have left the US. I know because I have my ear tightly to the ground on what those people are thinking. Those that think otherwise, and there are probably too many, are not looking at the large picture.

Public sector jobs provide politicians reliable votes for the most part and make the largest money with the least negative lifestyle side effects. This is where the vast majority of all the money printed in the last 9 years resides. This is why now the top 5 wealthiest counties by median family income in the US are basically suburbs of Washington, DC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e#First_Decile
Government sucks the prosperity out of the private sector businesses. It's broken down by city for Canada but the results are the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ties_in_Canada

One thing I do want to point out that is a plus for Saint John on that list is - Saint John is # 20 while Toronto is # 21. As hard as you may find it to believe, Toronto is a business dependent city that has been surviving the last 9 years as well. And they pull in a lot of immigrants that are low skilled. The highest electrical rates in at least Canada and the highest non sovereign per capita debt in the world have not helped the big sucking sound caused by jobs going to China, etc. Calgary's position on that list is a bit of a question mark. Their unemployment rate is getting close to 10%. So if they are # 2, I think there is something else going on there. North American salaries can't compete with the labour rates of the developing economies. Something eventually has to cave.

So you can continue to say you don't need public sector jobs in significant quantities, but all the current most successful economic areas are examples that the opposite is true. There is nothing else wrong with the economy of the area other than the fact that there is no recession/depression safety net like the one that public sector jobs provide. And that can only be cured by a different attitude than the historical neglect shown by provincial and federal governments.

[McKay]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Government sucks the prosperity out of the private sector businesses. It's broken down by city for Canada but the results are the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ties_in_Canada

Could you explain how you get that from the Wikipedia page you've linked to?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I don't think it's as simple as saying it's Irving's fault. Forcing the Irving's to pay full taxes on a less than profitable venture would only take cash from them that would have to be taken away from somewhere else, ultimately causing lower employment and/or a reduced tax base anyway. A private business, or even a publicly financed business has to survive on it's balance sheet.

You might argue that if there was a larger diversified business sector that forcing the Irving's to pay wouldn't be such a potential sacrifice in the end. But that is not dealing with the situation that exists.

Everybody is living in a reduced profitability situation and manufacturing is not likely to return to anywhere in North America unless we start selling labour at Chinese prices. Even Donald Trump supporters in their quiet moments are questioning his ability to bring back any jobs that have left the US. I know because I have my ear tightly to the ground on what those people are thinking. Those that think otherwise, and there are probably too many, are not looking at the large picture.

Public sector jobs provide politicians reliable votes for the most part and make the largest money with the least negative lifestyle side effects. This is where the vast majority of all the money printed in the last 9 years resides. This is why now the top 5 wealthiest counties by median family income in the US are basically suburbs of Washington, DC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e#First_Decile
Government sucks the prosperity out of the private sector businesses. It's broken down by city for Canada but the results are the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ties_in_Canada

One thing I do want to point out that is a plus for Saint John on that list is - Saint John is # 20 while Toronto is # 21. As hard as you may find it to believe, Toronto is a business dependent city that has been surviving the last 9 years as well. And they pull in a lot of immigrants that are low skilled. The highest electrical rates in at least Canada and the highest non sovereign per capita debt in the world have not helped the big sucking sound caused by jobs going to China, etc. Calgary's position on that list is a bit of a question mark. Their unemployment rate is getting close to 10%. So if they are # 2, I think there is something else going on there. North American salaries can't compete with the labour rates of the developing economies. Something eventually has to cave.

So you can continue to say you don't need public sector jobs in significant quantities, but all the current most successful economic areas are examples that the opposite is true. There is nothing else wrong with the economy of the area other than the fact that there is no recession/depression safety net like the one that public sector jobs provide. And that can only be cured by a different attitude than the historical neglect shown by provincial and federal governments.

I think the reason everyone is angry that Irving seemingly keeps getting these discounts has to do with the new Tax hike for most people residential, and commercial property owners alike then Irving despite hiring foreign labour for a job Canadian labour could have done. They now get a major discount on property taxes on there first year the bill wont be split. It seems a little fishy to people, and might I add considering I've heard it a few times since the article came out Underhanded, and potentially corrupt. (Not saying that it is. But I've heard those 2 specific terms used.)

[saintjohnirish☘]

HST, utilties, property taxes are going up throughout the province especially Saint John. We, even the poor, are subsidising a billionaire family.

[kwajo]

http://www.saintjohn.ca/en/home/news...medium=twitter

Saint John First Atlantic Canadian City to Promote Six-Story Wood Frame Construction
09-MAR-2017
City takes innovative approach to encouraging development
of more mid-rise buildings

The City of Saint John is pleased to announce it is leading Atlantic Canada with its proactive adoption of the 2015 National Building Code permitting wood frame construction of up to six-stories. Saint John is poised to encourage additional tax-base revenue through the development and construction of more mid-rise buildings by adopting this proven, safe, and cost-effective new form of construction to offer investors and developers.

“We are excited to take the lead in Atlantic Canada by offering developers a cost-effective alternative for developing properties in our City,” said Saint John Mayor Don Darling. “Saint John has many unique benefits to offer potential investors. Adopting mid-rise wood frame construction and preparing our development staff to accept such proposals provides the City with an advantage over other Atlantic Canadian cities.”

Saint John is seeking six-story wood frame development as an alternative solution to the 2010 building code currently in place, and the economic development and investment attraction benefits of such construction, include: a lower cost of construction, with potential reduced costs in the order of 15-20 per cent; increased availability of affordable housing; an increased tax base; a minimized carbon footprint of building construction; and job creation.

"This is exactly what a tree rich province like New Brunswick needs and it's great to see Saint John leading the way to be the first City in Atlantic Canada to adopt Six-Story wood construction," said Patrick Crabbe, project coordinator for Atlantic WoodWORKS! "Allowing taller wood structures will reduce the cost of construction, push innovation in the forest industry, and provide the needed economic incentive for Atlantic developers."

The City today also announced a Request for Proposals for the potential development of the City-owned property at the intersection of Canterbury and Princess Streets—a unique 505 square metre property in the heart of Saint John’s uptown core.

“The City of Saint John is open to receive any proposals for this site. However, this is a prime uptown property and an exciting opportunity for developers to seize. The location would also be a great opportunity for a wood frame construction demonstration project,” said Darling. “Saint John is a vibrant City on a new path to growth. Attracting the new development investment to increase our tax base revenue is one of the ways we can achieve economic prosperity.”

[saintjohnirish☘]

The rendering of the infill looks fantastic!

[kwajo]

Which in-fill are you referring to? Perhaps you could post the image for the rest of the board.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Which in-fill are you referring to? Perhaps you could post the image for the rest of the board.

I think he's referring to these:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...john-1.4017371

[saintjohnirish☘]

Yep, I mean the boards in the photos. I just zoomed in

[saintjohnirish☘]

Renewed push for free-trade zone in greater Saint John
Goods could be stored, manufactured without being subject to customs duty


Municipal councils in the greater Saint John area are supporting an application by Enterprise Saint John to have a designated free-trade zone in the region.

A free-trade zone is a special class of economic zone that allows goods to be stored and manufactured without being subject to customs duty, according to Enterprise Saint John CEO Steve Carson.

Benefits to community, companies

"Basically there are two benefits," Carson said. "From the community's perspective, it allows you to package the logistics of ports and transportation into a one-stop shop that you can promote around the world. It also gives you access to federal government dollars to help market your free-trade zone point."

That would mean Port Saint John, marine operator DP World and local manufacturing companies could benefit from duty and tax deferrals, he said.

A manufacturer could ship parts of a particular product to Saint John, where the finished version would be assembled in the free-trade zone. Duties would not be applied on the parts but on the finished products, when they're shipped, for example, to the U.S. or elsewhere in Canada.

"Let's say a bicycle manufacturer is looking at coming to the country," Carson said. "The wheels could come from China, the frame from Europe, and they're looking for a place in North America to assemble all the of the parts."

"If 90 percent of those bicycles were being exported to the United States. They wouldn't pay duty or taxes on those parts while they were being processed and transferred. The 10 percent being sold in Canada would be subject to the taxes and duties."

Another kick at the can

The idea of a free-trade zone in Saint John was first floated "quite a few years ago," according to Carson.

At that point Canada did not have a designated foreign trade-zone program. Requests to pilot the program in New Brunswick were met with a lukewarm response by the federal government, Carson said.

Now that a free-trade zone program has been developed, and the federal government is establishing such points across the country, "we're certainly keenly interested in becoming one of those designated communities," Carson said.

'Wide variety' of real estate options

The location of the free-trade zone is still up for discussion.

"The geographic boundaries are very flexible," Carson said. "This could [be] in our industrial parks, Colonel Nase Boulevard in Grand Bay-Westfield, or Millennium Drive in the KV. It's important that we have a wide variety of real estate options."

Municipal councils in Saint John, Quispamsis and Grand Bay-Westfield have already written or pledged to write letters of support for the designation.

Rothesay council voted to write a letter of support at its meeting Monday night.

The letters of support will be included in an application package to the federal government which, Carson hopes, will be reviewed and approved in the coming months.

"This isn't a big game changer," Carson said, "but it's an important tool for the toolbox."

[KnoxfordGuy]

The synagogue is saved!!!!!

http://huddle.today/cooke-aquacultur...ogue-building/

[RR Drummer]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

The synagogue is saved!!!!!

http://huddle.today/cooke-aquacultur...ogue-building/

That is great news. It will be interesting to hear the details as they are available.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Be sure to sign the petition!

Private developer interested in preserving Saint John's Jellybean Houses


Historic city-owned buildings slated for demolition by the end of April

The city-owned historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John could be demolished in April.
The city-owned historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John could be demolished in April. (CBC)
A private developer in Saint John is offering to preserve the historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John that are facing demolition if a non-profit group can't afford to save them.

"I put all my own money into every single project I do. So, these projects require work, they require expertise, they require time and they require money. It's what I do for a living, I make money from it, so it's what I'm used to doing," said Andreas Holmes, the property developer.

The brightly coloured Jellybean Houses have been neglected after nearly a decade of city ownership.

Historic jellybean houses likely unsalvageable
Janelle Russell is trying to convince the city to spare the buildings, and she has a petition with more than 1,000 signatures to support her efforts.

"We want a fair bidding process. There's been a lot people who have shown interest and they're willing to put their own money into it," she said.

Saint John Non-Profit Housing has an option on the property, but said it would be too expensive to include the buildings in a new apartment complex.

Saint John offers Jelly Bean houses to non-profit group
Jelly Bean houses could be mixed-income apartment complex
As a result, the city, which has owned the buildings since 2008, approved plans in February for demolition by the end of April.

Coun. Donna Reardon voted against those plans.

"There's 36 acres on the peninsula, across the street here, which are vacant. So there's lots of vacant spaces, like why take those buildings down?"

Holmes says the buildings are in better shape than some projects he's taken on before. He says he's going to ask the city to reconsider the demolition and allow him to save the Jellybean Houses.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Be sure to sign the petition!

Private developer interested in preserving Saint John's Jellybean Houses


Historic city-owned buildings slated for demolition by the end of April

The city-owned historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John could be demolished in April.
The city-owned historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John could be demolished in April. (CBC)
A private developer in Saint John is offering to preserve the historic Jellybean Houses in Saint John that are facing demolition if a non-profit group can't afford to save them.

"I put all my own money into every single project I do. So, these projects require work, they require expertise, they require time and they require money. It's what I do for a living, I make money from it, so it's what I'm used to doing," said Andreas Holmes, the property developer.

The brightly coloured Jellybean Houses have been neglected after nearly a decade of city ownership.

Historic jellybean houses likely unsalvageable
Janelle Russell is trying to convince the city to spare the buildings, and she has a petition with more than 1,000 signatures to support her efforts.

"We want a fair bidding process. There's been a lot people who have shown interest and they're willing to put their own money into it," she said.

Saint John Non-Profit Housing has an option on the property, but said it would be too expensive to include the buildings in a new apartment complex.

Saint John offers Jelly Bean houses to non-profit group
Jelly Bean houses could be mixed-income apartment complex
As a result, the city, which has owned the buildings since 2008, approved plans in February for demolition by the end of April.

Coun. Donna Reardon voted against those plans.

"There's 36 acres on the peninsula, across the street here, which are vacant. So there's lots of vacant spaces, like why take those buildings down?"

Holmes says the buildings are in better shape than some projects he's taken on before. He says he's going to ask the city to reconsider the demolition and allow him to save the Jellybean Houses.

It seems almost like the city of Saint John is on a path of complete destruction. They are quick to approve the demolition of properties, and if it's a mixed income property it's not seen, and should not be seen as a not for profit group.

Just my opinion.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

I've heard no official word on the Irving Parking Garage construction, but it would seem that they've started work on iy already according to all of the heavy equipment on site.

Multi-Story Parking Garage Construction by I'm Me, Who are You?, on Flickr