Restaurants Launch Anti-HST Campaign

[whatnext]

The B.C. Restaurant and Food Services Association has launched a new campaign to educate customers about the effects of a new 7 per cent meal tax which would be imposed due to the Harmonized Sales Tax. So they'll be serving up your food...with a side of information.

President Ian Tostenson says the Nomealtax.ca campaign encourages people to speak out against higher dining prices and potential job losses if the HST is added to restaurant meals. Tostenson says the www.nomealtax.ca will link you to an online petition addressed to the province and the federal government.

He says restaurant workers will also be spreading the word to patrons.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/m...09_131552_8256

http://www.nomealtax.ca/

[Yume-sama]

I doubt I would eat out less because of it. I may spend $60 - $80 already for a dinner, so, I won't really miss the $5. I may, however, feel less compelled to tip the 20%.

That said, I already purchase large items in Alberta. I don't purchase anything expensive in BC.

This does not bode well for US tourism, who already views Canada as too expensive thanks to the high dollar, though.

[twoNeurons]

What I don't understand is that if it's going to cost consumers MORE money, why not reduce the end cost by dropping it a percentage point or two?

5% + 7% goes to 10%. See... now isn't that better? Everyone's happy.

I'd also like to see it hidden, but that's a whole other issue.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

5% + 7% goes to 10%. See... now isn't that better? Everyone's happy.

I'd also like to see it hidden, but that's a whole other issue.

Of course, but the government doesn't like to give up revenue.

Hidden tax is a good way to go, but I don't think that will fly here. Europe is like a revolution in common sense pricing. Things are priced at rounded #s (1 euro, 3 euros, whatever), with taxes included. None of this $2.99 plus 12% BS.

In general I'm in favour of this tax. It simplifies things, however the Liberals pulled a total 180 on this one pre and post election, that's something to be mad about.

Just wait to see how happy the restaurants are when the NDP () win the next election and jack the minimum wage to $10+

[Stingray2004]

The VAT (HST) in European countries ranges from ~20% - ~25% on restaurant meals and virtually everything else while the VAT (HST) contemplated here in BC will be 12%, the lowest in Canada aside from Alberta.

I typically tip 15% on restaurant meals and that's inclusive of the current GST amount and that won't change.

President Ian Tostenson of the B.C. Restaurant and Food Services Association was recently on CKNW and confirmed that the last thing that their organization wants to see is an NDP government, which would increase their overall tax regime, notwithstanding a $10+ minimum wage.

Remember that by the end of the last BC NDP government, BC was the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America outside of Quebec.

The HST should marginally decrease the prices of goods overall as it replaces the PST, which is a cascading tax. A cascading tax is a turnover tax that is applied at every stage in the supply chain, without any deduction for the tax paid at earlier stages.

Cascading taxes (PST) are distorting in that they create an artificial incentive for vertical integration and are considered obsolete.

I also suspect that prior to the May 2013 BC provincial election, the HST will be decreased from 12% to either 11% or 10%. The current agreement with the feds permits same on July, 2012.

[Zassk]

If it was not for the gasoline discount built into the HST, then there would be an opportunity to give all sorts of HST breaks, such as to restaurants. But Gordo decided that the biggest revolt would come from a gasoline tax hike, so he concentrated on that.

[Yume-sama]

Yeah, there's no way that the price of ANY good is decreased, even marginally, because of this.

It's like the government. Once they have their claws in, they keep digging.

Personally I'm still shocked the GST ever went down to 5%.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Personally I'm still shocked the GST ever went down to 5%.

It is pretty obvious now that we couldn't actually afford that GST cut, it was purely done for political hay.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

I also suspect that prior to the May 2013 BC provincial election, the HST will be decreased from 12% to either 11% or 10%. The current agreement with the feds permits same on July, 2012.

Good points. I like your prediction as well.

Any idea why there is a waiting period in the agreement signed with the Feds?

What do they care if BC reduces their portion of the tax?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Yeah, there's no way that the price of ANY good is decreased, even marginally, because of this.

Sure they will. Ever hear of competition? Things out there with fixed prices will take a hit, unless they decide to up the price by a fixed amount (I'm thinking vending machines/parking, dollar stores, etc). It's a giant game of chicken in those industries.

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Personally I'm still shocked the GST ever went down to 5%.

Purely politics. Bad decision with respect to the long term productivity and financial health of the country. Income tax reduction would be much better.

Harper the economist, my ass.

[Yume-sama]

But, that assumes a lot of products are made in BC, or purchased from BC.

That's just not the case.

Nothing will be going down in price, quote me

[Stingray2004]

Some further tidbits.

President Ian Tostenson of the B.C. Restaurant and Food Services Association is also on the record as not being totally opposed to the HST:

[Tostenson] said the association is not rejecting the HST outright but is proposing that the province put the brakes on implementing the tax and phase it in.

"How about a staged tax over the next three years to allow the consumer some time to adjust," said Tostenson.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...-campaign.html

As for BC's perogative to reduce the HST on July, 2012, here's the detail:

The agreement does provide the Liberals with one opening to reduce the provincial share of the tax burden before the next election. The seven per cent will be locked in for two years, until July 1, 2012. Thereafter it can be "increased or decreased" on 120 days notice to Ottawa.

But the overall agreement is locked in for five years, until 2015.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...453/story.html

Now here's the funny part. Potentially hilarious anyway. We all know that the "anti-tax" champions, the NDP, will be opposing the implementation of the HST legislation in Victoria.

But here's the crux. The BC legislation will be a simple repeal of the 7% provincial sales tax legislation.

So if the NDP decides to vote against this legislation, BC would not only be facing a 12% HST enacted by the feds, but the NDP would be voting to continue to collect the additional 7% PST on top of that totaling ~19%. Double taxation.

[touraccuracy]

^what's ridiculous though is that they would never kill the hst and switch back to the current system if they were in power and they're already coming up with excuses for that. they claim the bcliberals have tied us into hst so that if the bcndp repealed it while in power, we'd have to pay back lots and lots of money. this is true, but it's the money that the government is giving us to switch to the hst. do the ndp really think that we could switch to hst, collect the money reward, then switch back to pst? even then, the money we pay back would be pro-rated (i've heard).

[djmk]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Sure they will. Ever hear of competition?

the price of a restaurant meal will not decrease. currently, restaurants major costs (food and labour) do not have GST or PST. Claiming the "ITC" of the PST will have almost no effect on how much the restaurant will be to remit back. However, where they might positively affected is in the purchase of alcohol. Currently, there is a double taxation in alcohol. The restaurant pays it to purchase it and the customers pays it to drink it. Also this will drop from 15% to 12%

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by djmk

the price of a restaurant meal will not decrease. currently, restaurants major costs (food and labour) do not have GST or PST. Claiming the "ITC" of the PST will have almost no effect on how much the restaurant will be to remit back. However, where they might positively affected is in the purchase of alcohol. Currently, there is a double taxation in alcohol. The restaurant pays it to purchase it and the customers pays it to drink it. Also this will drop from 15% to 12%

Restaurants are the obvious example of where things will get more expensive, that's the whole point.

I have it on good authority the LDB will be increasing prices 3% to compensate for the lower tax rate.

[whatnext]

Could it be the BC Liberals were <gasp> lying:

HST eating into restaurant business, survey shows

HST-added restaurant bills are not going down well with B.C. diners.

Business was down 10 per cent on average in July during the HST’s first month of operation, compared with the same period last year, according to a survey by the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

“We had been hoping for the best, but unfortunately, our worst fears have come true,” Mark von Schellwitz, CFRA vice-president for Western Canada, said Tuesday, as the organization released results of its online membership poll that drew more than 800 responses...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1661049/

[Yume-sama]

Honestly, it's probably a temporary blip. After awhile people forget and gladly pay the tax. There will come a day when people won't even remember they never paid it.

It always happens. I mean, look at *income tax*, or even GST which was only introduced in 1991.

Right now it's just on peoples minds. But it won't always be.

[SpongeG]

i don't know

i almost choked when a $5.99 item at 7-11 came out to $6.71 - no more of that for me

I don't go to starbucks as much as i used to and will and have cut back

and in my area a lot of local restaurants are having we pay the HST specials until september - every week i get a coupon in the mail for something about no HST special...

[whatnext]

Likewise I've switched from specialty coffees at Starbucks to cheaper drinks. And I've definitely noticed my local one is not as busy as before the HST.

[itinerant]

Its not just the increased tax on top of the cost of the meal. Many restaurants I have visited recently have increased their before-tax prices significantly: from 10 to 20%. When asked, they have all blamed HST for increasing their costs--which they are passing on to the consumer. What?! Are they using this as an excuse to push up prices or are we really seeing increased taxes trickling through the system of transport and distribution until it hits our dinner bill? I think the latter.