Dallas l DART Light Rail Expansion Updates

[electricron]

Originally Posted by TexasBoi

That is great news. Are there any hints to where they will actually place the station?

Which station in particular? If you're wondering about the last station on the Orange Line at DFW Airport, DART's light rail station will be placed near Terminal A.

Having the Orange line interlined with the Green line south of Bachman Station will half the headways of the trains between Bachman and Pearl stations. The closer to downtown Dallas you get, the shorter the headways are between the trains.

[jtk1519]

Based on what electricron said and DART's maps, I'm guessing the Northern terminus of the Orange line will look something like this?



If I had to venture a guess (and I'm assume the exact location of the DFW station is as of now undecided) that the station will be located near the North part of terminal A where it can connect with the DFW people mover...



Again, those are just my best guesses.

[electricron]

Sorry, duplicate post.

[electricron]

Very good guesses for location. But current plans don't include interconnecting with the People Mover at the new light rail station. Instead, train passengers will be expected to walk to Terminal A, go through security in Terminal A, then board the People Mover ontop of Terminal A, around 1,000 feet in total, to get to the other terminals at DFW.

DFW's People Mover is located on the secure side of all the terminals, which is one reason why it doesn't stop at any parking lots.

[jtk1519]

Originally Posted by electricron

Very good guesses for location. But current plans don't include interconnecting with the People Mover at the new light rail station. Instead, train passengers will be expected to walk to Terminal A, go through security in Terminal A, then board the People Mover ontop of Terminal A, around 1,000 feet in total, to get to the other terminals at DFW.

DFW's People Mover is located on the secure side of all the terminals, which is one reason why it doesn't stop at any parking lots.

That would make sense. I don't think I have actually been to DFW since the new people mover opened. SO do they plan to put the station in the parking lot of the terminal or run the track along the curve of the terminal so that it connects directly with the terminal? Something like this...

[electricron]

I think that would be an excellent idea, as that's where the old AAtrain ran. The AAtrain also ran to the remote parking lots as well. They could just restart services on it. But, in many places the Terminals have expanded and retaken the old right-of-way. Brand new Terminal D doesn't have any AAtrain equipment around.

Additional information; there are two Skytrain (People Mover) stations per Terminal now. I forget exactly how many, but there were more than one AAtrain station per terminal too.

So, that's very unlikely. Walking approximately 1,000 feet to the Skytrain station isn't that far, considering more than half that distance is within the Terminal's cool air conditioned spaces.

[mrnyc]

well, that explains why the airport air train doesn't go to the rental car sector. it would be much more useful if it were outside of airport security so it could go to more far flung parking and car rental areas, but it is what it is.

anyway, very good news to hear that dallas will finally get a rail connection into dfw with this next round of expansion!

[blockski]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

well, that explains why the airport air train doesn't go to the rental car sector. it would be much more useful if it were outside of airport security so it could go to more far flung parking and car rental areas, but it is what it is.

anyway, very good news to hear that dallas will finally get a rail connection into dfw with this next round of expansion!

But then it would be largely useless for people that need to change planes and also change terminals. If you have to leave security and then go back through, that would seriously discourage a lot of people from flying through if they could avoid it.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by blockski

But then it would be largely useless for people that need to change planes and also change terminals. If you have to leave security and then go back through, that would seriously discourage a lot of people from flying through if they could avoid it.

no, not useless, but of course there are two ways it could be done and both have some advantages/disadvantages. maybe you'll use our air trains at jfk or newark sometime and see the other way for yourself!

if you are in the position of switching planes and terminals and airlines the airport is going to be a hassle no matter what and sure in those cases an inside system people mover would be quicker. however, assuming dallas is your destination the more one seat connections those airport people movers have to airport related services like terminals, parking and transportation the better.

as for dfw, maybe someday that old aa train that was mentioned could be revived in some form and used to take folks around the airport's outer areas for stuff like parking, rentals, dart and maybe even hotels? that would great.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

no, not useless, but of course there are two ways it could be done and both have some advantages/disadvantages. maybe you'll use our air trains at jfk or newark sometime and see the other way for yourself!

if you are in the position of switching planes and terminals and airlines the airport is going to be a hassle no matter what and sure in those cases an inside system people mover would be quicker. however, assuming dallas is your destination the more one seat connections those airport people movers have to airport related services like terminals, parking and transportation the better.

as for dfw, maybe someday that old aa train that was mentioned could be revived in some form and used to take folks around the airport's outer areas for stuff like parking, rentals, dart and maybe even hotels? that would great.

DFW's old AAtrain was setup to connected the Terminals outside security long before modern security requirements. But when the new security requirements were put into place, it's shortcomings became more and more numerous. Which is why DFW decided to build the new Skytrain stations inside security. DFW always had to have a buses to backup AAtrain, which is still in place to service outside security. It's not like there isn't any transit at all outside security.

Close to 80% of DFW passengers are transferring between flights. This statistic is basically true at all major airline hubs.

[jtk1519]

Obviously this would be more expensive, but because of DFW's multiple terminal layout, was there ever any consideration given to the idea of placing the DART station in the middle of the airport and either extending the SkyTrain or building a new people-mover system to connect the DART station to the individual terminals in kind of a hub and spoke design? The obvious advantage to me is that people going to DFW could get off at the DART station and go immediately to their terminal instead of getting off at terminal A and going through security just so they can go to another terminal.

[dfwcr8tive]

When they built Skylink they planned for an eventual 13th station between Terminal D & F (the long straight section) for a future intermodal station. This would have been a shared station for the TRE from the south, DART, and Skylink. When planning the DART route there were 3 options: from the south, from the north, and underground to the center of the airport. The north route was chosen because of cost. With DART now arriving from the north, and the future commuter rail terminating at the north, the station location was also pushed to the north to between Terminal A & B below the Skylink tracks.

The old Airtrans/TrAAin stations have seen new life as expanded security screening areas and future restaurant space. There were originally 3 Airtrans stations outside of security and 2 TrAAin stations on the secure side in each terminal. While the system was very advanced at the airport's opening, the uni-direction system couldn't handle the number of connecting passengers since the airport was designed mainly for O/D passengers. The right of way between International Parkway and the service roads will be used for the commuter and DART rail lines.

[electricron]

Here's the basic layout of DFW's five terminals.
Each Terminal has its own parking garages between it and the central parkway.

(B) || (A)
(D) || (C)
.....|| (E)

The light rail corridor runs between terminals A, C & E and the parkway.
The commuter rail corridor runs between terminals B & D and the parkway.

While nothing is physically impossible to build, building five or six light rail stations at DFW isn't practical, when the existing Skytrain system is already in place. It's not a wise use of limited financial resources to build two separate transit systems within guideways doing the same thing.

Take the airport at Las Vegas as another example. All departing passengers are dropped off at the old terminal where they go through security. If they need to reach the new terminals, a people mover connects the old terminal to them. Likewise just the opposite applies for arriving passengers at the new terminals.

At DFW, just substitute Terminals A & B for old, and Terminals C, D & E for new. But at DFW, you can go directly to all the Terminals because all the Terminals have security checkpoints. It's just that not all the Terminals will have light rail and commuter rail train stations.

[TexasBoi]

Originally Posted by electricron

Which station in particular? If you're wondering about the last station on the Orange Line at DFW Airport, DART's light rail station will be placed near Terminal A.

Having the Orange line interlined with the Green line south of Bachman Station will half the headways of the trains between Bachman and Pearl stations. The closer to downtown Dallas you get, the shorter the headways are between the trains.

Yes my bad. Sorry for not being specific. But yes, the DFW airport line. I think that would be the single greatest day in the region's transportation history when that station opens. So the massive size of DFW is why it is so difficult to place the station? Doesn't surprise me. Wish it could work as easily as National airport in the DC area but of course, that airport is much smaller.

[ardecila]

If travelers can check in for all airlines at the Terminal A station, then DART's plan sounds good. They just need to focus on the quality of the transfer; the walking distance from the DART platform, through security, and to SkyTrain should be minimized. If long walking cannot be avoided, then it should be enhanced with moving sidewalks and/or art installations to provide visual engagement.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by electricron

DFW's old AAtrain was setup to connected the Terminals outside security long before modern security requirements. But when the new security requirements were put into place, it's shortcomings became more and more numerous. Which is why DFW decided to build the new Skytrain stations inside security. DFW always had to have a buses to backup AAtrain, which is still in place to service outside security. It's not like there isn't any transit at all outside security.

well, noone said there wasnt "any transit at all outside security," but dfw could certainly use improvements there.
and thats the disadvantage of having of having the airtrain inside security....

Close to 80% of DFW passengers are transferring between flights. This statistic is basically true at all major airline hubs.

....and that is the advantage. still, there are other airports that have airtrains outside of security. its apples and oranges. thats why i wondered if a revamped aatrain w/ extensions or something like it outside of security might be a good idea for dfw to improve near-airport transit.

[VivaLFuego]

While there's value in having the easiest connection possible geared towards travelers, it's really not worth a ridiculous extra investment if something sufficient can be done for much cheaper. Most of the users of the DFW rail station will be airport/airline employees, anyway, which is important to remember for all American rail-to-airport connections.

[jtk1519]

I took a quick lunchtime stroll around Deep Ellum yesterday and snapped off a few pics of the Deep Ellum station and surroundings which is still a pretty big mess right now because of all the construction, but they were test running a train to and from the station and it's easy to see that this is going to be a badass area when all is said and done...





Just past the Deep Ellum station, the line veers off the street and curves towards Baylor Medical Center...


One of the best touches IMO is the commitment to local artists and preserving as much of the old Deep Ellum feel as possible. An entire row of buildings facing the train station has been pained by local artists...




http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...&postcount=111

The "Traveling Man" statue is particularly cool...

www.dart.org

And the nicest artistic touch can actually be found on the train platform itself where there are numerous ghostly images of old Deep Ellum. My pics didn't turn out so here are some from the Dallas Metropolis board...



http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...&postcount=132

[mrnyc]

those are great pics -- yeah, i saw the new deep ellum station up close. looks good.

is the construction moving along on-time or are there delays? what's the projected start date?

[BrandonJXN]

Dallas is in need of new light rail trains. I have never liked those currently in use.

These would look perfect in Dallas.